Thread: Is Liberalism Dead?

Originally Posted by USCitizen

How many Liberals as mindless as you describe do you actually meet in real life?

All of them.

How wonderful it must be for right-wingers, neo-cons, republicans whatever they want to call themselves, have such short memories. To live in that right-wing world of distorted fantasies, how wonderful must it be to live in that blissful and distorted ignorance. To them the world economic crisis started on January 20, 2009. All their whining started on that date. I don't see the point of arguing with right wingers, they are wrong: period.

No, liberalism is alive and well.

The world's oil supply has hit its peak, yet some folks believe that more drilling with somehow fix our long-term needs. Corporate welfare is in the tens of billions to the oil and gas industry. That's pretty liberal because a conservative should stand for a pro-business solution that taps into emerging energy markets such as green energy. Conservation of our planet and using its resources wisely are to me, conservative values. But liberalism on the environment, including rampant acts of deregulation, have helped to cause oil spills all over the world, including the massive BP spill that has sent entire communities into depression.

I would estimate that it's conservative to drive your SUV with at least one hand on the wheel, therefore, it would seem a conservative value to me to keep one hand on the pulse of the economy in order to prevent the kind of corporate malfeasance that led to the crash of 2008. A few bad apples in a culture of greed couldn't help themselves and they imperiled our entire economic system, affecting practically every single one of us in some way. A liberal liberates, and so setting the free market free and putting it on faith that it can police itself and hold itself up to good standards is not wise, prudent or conservative.

Liberalism is alive and well on any number of important issues in America. And the public is fairly liberal minded when it comes to social values, but they show conservatism when it comes to sensibly regulating the free market, which is highly popular among mainstream voters.

The definitions, however, are misunderstood among most partisan people.

I just don't see it as a classic liberal move what Canada did to make sure that the banking industry was set up so that it couldn't do the damage that the American one did, which has been run in a recklessly liberal way the last few decades by folks who keep digging us into a hole every time they try and set the market free.

Originally Posted by jpn

I love that line. The "obvious global meltdown of Keynesian economics."

Here we have Europe imploding due to the German's blockheaded refusal to change their austerity-in-the-face-of-recession policy, and to some people there's an "obvious global meltdown of Keynesian economics."

Wow do you have it backwards. The idea that government ought to abdicate its sovereignty because of a downturn in an economy it caused by overspending is revealing.

Originally Posted by Ricardo Valdi

for right-winger ... world economic crisis started on January 20, 2009.

That is not true. It started over a century ago when government abandoned commodity backed currency in favor of working in cahoots with central bankers, the world's most powerful and secretive cabal.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Corporate welfare is in the tens of billions to the oil and gas industry.

That is as true as government programs tend to cost less than originally estimated by those who create the programs.

Liberalism, as I know it, will only die, with the death of the religious mind. Liberalism is born of the religious mind, while conservatism is born of the ego, the self. The conflict between the two is the never ending conflict of doing what is right and good, against that which seeks to glorify the ego, the self, the individual, at the peril of others. I think liberalism and conservatism at the end of the day reduces down to this simple truth.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Liberalism, as I know it, will only die, with the death of the religious mind. Liberalism is born of the religious mind, while conservatism is born of the ego, the self. The conflict between the two is the never ending conflict of doing what is right and good, against that which seeks to glorify the ego, the self, the individual, at the peril of others. I think liberalism and conservatism at the end of the day reduces down to this simple truth.

The word "LIBERAL" has been mis-characturized by the right to use as a weapon against those will not embrace Chicanery, Deception/Deceit as a way of life. ,

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Liberalism, as I know it, will only die, with the death of the religious mind. Liberalism is born of the religious mind, while conservatism is born of the ego, the self. The conflict between the two is the never ending conflict of doing what is right and good, against that which seeks to glorify the ego, the self, the individual, at the peril of others. I think liberalism and conservatism at the end of the day reduces down to this simple truth.

Yet the right wing spin affirms the opposite. That Liberals are immoral godless creatures while conservatives are pious godfearing religious saints. Yet Liberalism will die, according to you, with the death of the religious mind and when that happens we will all turn into doggie eat dog conservatives. Actually religion is bourne of the religious mind, the religious mind is not bourne of religion since morality and compassion are innate in most homo-sapiens. Except in about 30% or so of homo-sapiens that are born with differing degrees of sociopathic pathologies which makes most of that 30% conservatives and by extension Republicans and/or Libertarians and/or brutal capitalist thugs. Of course I don't think we are talking about religion here but using it for the sake of argument. Nevertheless, by religious mind we would infer a higher moral standard which is what most Liberals have aspire to.

Yet from my observation if we are to generalize Liberals seem to be of a higher moral and humanistic character while conservatives come off as amoral, mean, selfish, greedy and incompassionate.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

That is not true. It started over a century ago when government abandoned commodity backed currency in favor of working in cahoots with central bankers, the world's most powerful and secretive cabal.

Of course it's not true. In today's political atmosphere the right-wing behaves as if it has. By the arguments I hear you would think it did.

Originally Posted by Blue Doggy

Liberalism, as I know it, will only die, with the death of the religious mind. Liberalism is born of the religious mind, while conservatism is born of the ego, the self. The conflict between the two is the never ending conflict of doing what is right and good, against that which seeks to glorify the ego, the self, the individual, at the peril of others. I think liberalism and conservatism at the end of the day reduces down to this simple truth.

The religion of the modern Liberal is the religion of the supremacy of the State over the individual.

This is in stark contrast to the Classic liberal, where government exists not as master but servant of the individual.

Originally Posted by JohnLocke

The religion of the modern Liberal is the religion of the supremacy of the State over the individual.

This is in stark contrast to the Classic liberal, where government exists not as master but servant of the individual.

I am not a modern liberal if that is the case. I believe there is certainly a place for gov't in neutering the power of the wealthy, to stop them from being robber barons, monopolies, and using the american people in an unfair fashion as they create their great wealth. History has proven time and time again what happens if you just turn em loose to do as they will. That is what makes me nervous about conservative ideology, as they do not acknowledge the track record of wealth, when unfettered, or they just do not give a shit and figure it is the natural order.

I think the common man, the average american needs the gov't by and for the people to protect him from the excesses of greed created wealth. There is nothing in this world more powerful than money, that is a fact. And the greed for it can create suffering upon the non rich. Which it is doing today. My liberalism would fight this tooth and nail because I believe firmly in social safety nets, but if greed takes away millions of jobs, we cannot afford the size of safety net that will be needed to keep folks from reliving the great depression. The cost of greed maxing out profits by cheap labor is our exploding safety nets. Corporate and banking greed is weakening this nation, its intestinal fortitude. My kind of liberalism would put a stop this this insanity.

My liberalism would manage our capitalistic economy, and structure it to create the largest middle class possible with the given wealth. This is the only healthy way, and its the right way. We would have millionaires but no billionaires, but more millionaires than we do today. Just more smaller millionaires instead of fewer wealthier millionaires.

In short I would use capitalism to enrich the largest number of working people possible If you did that, we could well afford any social safety nets for the truly needy. And you could do this with economic policy, regulations and trade policy.

We manage everything in our lives, from our morning schedule to get to work on time, to going to the moon. But it's hands off when it comes to a nations economy, her life blood, the thing that substains her people. It is too important to leave it to a few elites trying to max out their wealth.

IN short I believe the gov't should treat a nation's business, our economy as something to use to make all of america prosper. That strengthens the republic, it minimizes social ills, crime, etc. It is the only intelligent thing to do. That is my kind of liberalism.

Hey look, I believe in US first, allies second and enemies be blown to hell and because my order is not profit first, profit second, profit only, I am a Liberal.
Then I'm damned proud to be a Liberal.