Exactly - you see a difference between what you think is patriotic and what you think is something else - and you have no trouble labeling a decorated veteran with your term for the something else.

We both know that your term "loyalist" is not a complement in any fashion - you have plainly stated it means putting aside loyalty for the country and Constitution. As you surely know, this would also, by definition, mean betraying the oath taken upon joining the service. This is not a harmless accusation, nor one that should be made is blithely as you have done.

As for your "how about we discuss the topic and not each other" - you don't seem to mind calling people "loyalists" and so forth (plainly discussing the posters), but immediately run to "discuss the topic and not the posters" when your attacks on other posters catch up to you.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

As I have often said it is Sam herself that makes Sam the topic.

__________________

The universe grows smaller every day and the threat of aggression by any group anywhere can no longer be tolerated. There must be security for all or no one is secure... - Klaatu

I don't know, Gort. Maybe there's some spillover from other threads, some personal animosity towards Sam, but in this thread, Sam's first post was:

"Here's one I really hope the Democrat wins and not even for partisan reasons. Mean Jean, as they call her now, does not deserve a seat after calling a war veteran a coward. She is disgraceful."

That was in response to the 8 Congressional races still too close to call. She offered her opinion on one of the candidates. Aren't we all free to do that? She even said that her comment was not a partisan comment. Rather, she was defending a person who had served in this country's military for decades, and said that calling a person like that a coward was disgraceful.

Sam responded to the thread - others have responded by attacking Sam. In this thread, others have made Sam the topic.

__________________
Curly

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.

- Hermann Goering

I disagree curly

when A person has on this board told veterans that they are loyalists for supporting the president and the war. Which is not a compliment at all, then how can this not be partisan for that person?

by setting a precedence it is relative to the thread

in the end our own words set us up to be called on his.

we cant get it both ways

then why do you constantley infer i am a loyalist?

why did you insult me , matt and mrs M on the Patriotic thread with the loyalist claim?

if you respect me you would never infer this

regardless of political affiliation sam i think anyone who has served in the miltary and the war are patriots

even the ones who campaigned for kerry

(insert kerry bash here )

OHHH Rah !!!

__________________
Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

Rakkasan,

My point was that, in this thread, all Sam did was to say that she thought that it was disgraceful for someone to call a decorated veteren a coward.

Based on what Sam may have said in other threads, she was then attacked in this thread.

I don't think it's right to attack people in one thread for what they may have said in another.

Getting back to what Sam said in her first post (and only with regard to that post), I agree with her. I think it was awful for a US Representative, on the floor of the House of Representatives, to call a decorated veteran a coward.

__________________
Curly

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.

- Hermann Goering

so if one those nazi conspiracy nuts posts in another thread we should forget their vaules in other threads ? Weird ..

i think peoples core values carry with them.

Sam is a left winged liberal and pretty proud of it. We know her philosphy and she isnt afraid to say it in threads. Should that be assumed she carries a philosphy in other threads or should we act like we dont know each other in each thread and wipe the slate clean.

I bet if we asked Sam to post a few things to describe me she would do a good job. even though i havent been here to long.
If i say something on oher threads i think she has the right to carry it into other threads and has. She knows I tote the conservative line.

__________________
Hardcore Conservative !

I said Conservative not necessarly Republican or Democrat. Liberals are in both of those parties.

Did I say that? No, I didn't.

I agree.

Okay - fine.

But I didn't say anything about anyone's core values or philosophy or wiping the slate clean. My point is that, if a person has a problem with something that someone else says, they should address it in whatever thread it appears. In this particular thread, the post of Sam's that drew an immediate attack was this:

What, exactly, in that post, merits an attack by others? Do others feel it's okay to call decorated veterans cowards? Is that why some are attacking Sam in this thread? They, too, feel decorated veterans are cowards?

__________________
Curly

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.

- Hermann Goering

In my younger unenlighted days.

__________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens."

-Thomas Jefferson

You've totally missed the point.

Sam decries (and rightly so), attacks on our veterans - but only if she agrees with their politics.

Sam herself has made some very unkind comments - even accusing one of violating the oath he took as a soldier - but it's OK because that soldier is of a different political affiliation.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

@Matt, what the hell are you talking about? I accused someone of violating their oath? WTF?

@Curly Thanks man, for getting into the pit and noticing the attacks. When I mention that I am being attacked they start attacking me for pointing out I am being attacked.

@Rakkasan, I have apologized yet you still hold a grudge. I can't really do anything about that can I?

Yes, Sam, you did.

You claim, frequently, that Rakkasan puts his loyalty in the President, not the Constitution. You even did so in this thread:

I'll leave it to you to check out the Oath taken by our enlisted service members, and see where the conflict lies. If you are really interested, that is....

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

The military vows to protect the constitution.

The oath of allegiance:

The oath of enlistment:

But now that you have hijacked Curly's thread with your Sam bashing, how about that Mean Jean?

Precisely. And since you have defined "loyalist" to mean someone who places the President ahead of Constitution and have labeled a decorated veteran as a "loyalist"......

You can figure it out from there, I am sure.

Matt

__________________
De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum