shit you nailed it


it was one of the first post by said poster i ALMOST read all of, for he actually made some informative points

then of course it ends with america sucks

It's not ridiculous because that was not the point I was making. I am not equating JFK with Obama. I cited him and plenty others to show that charm and charisma count for alot, and that long experience is not necessary. People win with those circumstances. That was the point.

Yes, JFK hyped his war record. Dubya only had two terms as a state governor and he still won--hyping his connection as his father's son all the way to Austin and then Washington. Most have a gimmick or hitch of sorts. One for Obama's would be his race, although some sadly predict that may be just as much a liability given some people's views.

Nor is he a 'flatliner.' That's just canned spam by committed Republican groups and loyalists. That isn't a knock on them given all parties do this to opponents, but that is how I see it. He was a state senator before coming to the Senate, has been credited with accomplishments, and has a solid education and varied background of usefulness.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

People had worse than him. Lincoln has sparse experience and was considered a 'flatliner' too. Most of the nation disliked him, with half rebelling against him. No one can credibly call him a waste of time today.

If he runs, my guess is that people will vote for him on his issues with a heavy leaning on party membership loyalty like most do. His race factor will get and lose him votes and could be a wash altogether. Charisma counts, and that favours him. An old saw is "who would you rather have a beer with?" That isn't said because it is inaccurate. It helped that Bush won that question with more people than Kerry did. And on that same test, many speculate had Edwards been the POTUS candidate even with his sparse prior experience, he would have beat Bush (Kerry was just that bad to lose with a starting good hand dealt by Bush). Whether Obama runs, wins (or whether I would vote for him) is way too early for me to tell given 2008 is too out there and lots of things develop between then and now, I don't know who his competition is, etc.

Yeah because you know Bush had a far better record.

He's a junior senator, which actually works to his advantage. There isn't as much that can be dredged up against him. We do have his voting record and it seems pretty good to me.

what does bush have to do with Obama? You really need a new boogy man.

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I think at this point there needs to be a focus on an immediate increase in spending and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat . . . I believe later on there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of the money."
-- Barney Frank, October 20, 2008

First the JFK comparison and now Abraham Lincoln? Well, they are both from Illinois, of course, that's where the similarity ends. who's next? Washington? Jefferson??

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I think at this point there needs to be a focus on an immediate increase in spending and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat . . . I believe later on there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of the money."
-- Barney Frank, October 20, 2008

Lincoln was from Kentucky and Obama is from Hawaii. The rest is out of context in which they were offered. If you don't think charismatic, popular, handsome, smart guys with prior elected and capable experience with accomplishments can win elections, that's ok. But, you voted for Schwartzenegger and his experience was drastically less and it's no secret why he got elected in the first place.

I agree. I first heard him speak when I was at a conference in Chicago, and I was very impressed. I enjoy listening to people who can articulate their thoughts and make a coherent presentation.

Then I saw the tape of him at Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin's steak fry, and I thought he did really well there ... and the crowd was obviously taken by him.

A couple of days ago, an editorial in the Chicago Tribunal urged him to run for President.

Experience is good, but maybe what we need even more is inspiration.

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Curly

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.

- Hermann Goering

Can't see how you can say he transcends party lines.

From the list of achievements Andrew posted, Obama's work so far supports higher taxes, more spending, and gun control.

How is this different from Hillary or Kerry?

Matt

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De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum

Hey..stop clouding the issue with issues.....

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

He supports the things that Americans support according to polls. Which is access to affordable health care, stricter gun control, and quality education... yes all that requires more spending. (i think of billions of dollars that could easily be made available at not extra cost to Americans).

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

OK, take out the assassination comment and it is most likely accurate, not bigotry, just American politics. His progressive stance will be one of the reasons he does not make it. If he does want to make it in the old boys club, he will have to drop the progressive attitude. Do you think I'm totally off base with that assessment?

Andrew

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Ethanol is a fabulous solution to our energy dilemma because it will provide more fuel for us to drive around and look for food.

-- Unknown

Why do people constantly bring up his "lack" of experience as if its an argument? Look what the foreign policy dream team of Rummy, Cheney, Powell and all the others from Bush I got you into. George W hadn't even been out of the country when he was voted POTUS. You're telling me the world's top diplomat and statesman never having left his own country if of no concern to you but Obama's 1 year term as Senator rules him out? If that's the best Republicans have against Obama, then '08 will make the '06 midterms look like a cakewalk for the Republicans. Throw in a pro-war stay the course right wing nut and its 60-40 in the popular vote. Throw in McCain and you might get to within 10 points but forget it.

Lincoln and Obama both represented the state of Illinois, but of course you knew that. And yes I voted for Arnold. You seem to forget that Arnold has worldwide fame - he a MOVIE STAR! with mass appeal, he's not some unknown junior senator from Illinois!

So far we have OSB comparing an unknown Junior senator from Illinois to: John F Kennedy, Abraham Lincoln, Arnold Schwartzenegger, ...who's next JESUS???

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I think at this point there needs to be a focus on an immediate increase in spending and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat . . . I believe later on there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of the money."
-- Barney Frank, October 20, 2008

You're saying that record matters, yet bush was elected just fine, and besides a failed business man, a drug addict, and a crappy governor, he hadn't done much either.

Obama is a great speaker. Don't count him out because he hasn't been in gvt long. To a lot of people that's a plus. Can he do worse than some of the crooks we got now? I just wish I lived in one of those early primary states so I could vote for the person I like. By the time it gets here, my person's already bailed.