America moves to the Left - Page 4 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Rakkasan · #46 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

Do you read English? Are you literate? Those are OPINION POLLS as clearly stated, not "his numbers." You've got a lot of badmouth about Chomsky...with NOTHING to back it up. If you're going to say it here, you'd better bloody well be able to prove it. I did.

(And If you REALLY want to know where he gets them, may I suggest that you go to the library and LOOK IT UP? I told you exactly where.)

I have no intention of doing your work for you...not to satisfy mere idle curiosity.

I rarley agree with gort

but he is right if you are going ot use chomsky for any source of credibility

then fucking rove should be credible

SamInTheSouth · #47 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

Chomsky a Communist?!? Don't be exceedingly ridiculous. Show me.

As you wish........

Quote:

Chomsky describes himself as a libertarian socialist and a sympathizer of anarcho-syndicalism (he is a member of the IWW).

Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Libertarian socialism includes a group of political philosophies that aim to create a society without political, economic or social hierarchies - a society in which individuals co-operate freely as equals. This would be achieved through the abolition of private property, thereby giving direct control of the means of production and resources to the working class and other unpropertied classes. Additionally, its advocates have expressed the notion that libertarian socialism is a tendency of thought that informs the identification, criticism and practical dismantling of illegitimate authority in all aspects of social life. Accordingly they believe that "the exercise of power in any institutionalised form -- whether economic, political or sexual -- brutalises both the wielder of power and the one over whom it is exercised."[1]

While many varieties of socialism emphasize the role of the state or political party in promoting liberty and social justice, libertarian socialists place their hopes in trade unions, workers' councils, municipalities, citizens' assemblies, and other non-bureaucratic, decentralized means of action. Many libertarian socialists advocate doing away with the state altogether, seeing it as a bulwark of capitalist class rule.

A well-known libertarian socialist political philosophy is anarchism, with anarchist communism and anarcho-syndicalism the most active sectors. Other prominent libertarian socialist ideologies include mutualism, council communism, autonomist Marxism, and Social Ecology. The terms anarchist communism and libertarian communism should not be considered synonyms for libertarian socialism.
Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

goober · #48 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

OK, so now it's Libertarian=Communist?
Or is it that anyone who doesn't bow to the "Great Leader" George W. Bush is a Communist?

SamInTheSouth · #49 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober

OK, so now it's Libertarian=Communist?

Being that I consider myself closer to a Libertarian than anything else, that would be quite a shock to me.

The word Libertarian incorporated in Libertarian Socialist is not the same Libertarian in terms of the party or standard belief. They have bastardized the word for their own purpose. You already know this of course, but you are attempting to create a point where one doesn't exist so that you can defend Chomsky because you agree with a lot, if not all of, his ideas and aren't willing to admit that you support a Communist state. But that's okay. You don't have to admit it. We already know that you do.

Quote:

Or is it that anyone who doesn't bow to the "Great Leader" George W. Bush is a Communist?

You think anyone who doesn't support Bush is a Communist? That's a pretty extreme view, Comrade.

Angel Of Mercy · #50 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakkasan

I rarley agree with gort

but he is right if you are going ot use chomsky for any source of credibility

then fucking rove should be credible

All you specimens have disparaged a man who has more honorary degrees than you've got fingers and toes with NO justification whatsoever.

Personally, it would be difficult for me to care any less who you agree with, Rakky; either give me a link or shut up. It's just that simple.

Angel Of Mercy · #51 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheBurgh

As you wish........

Wikipedia? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! WIKIPEDIA?!?

You can't do any better than an encyclopedia edited by anybody who comes along? And it STILL doesn't call him a Comminist???

You are not merely an excruciating waste of time, you are not worth one more keystroke of mine.

Not one. Begone.

Diuretic · #52 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheBurgh

Being that I consider myself closer to a Libertarian than anything else, that would be quite a shock to me.

The word Libertarian incorporated in Libertarian Socialist is not the same Libertarian in terms of the party or standard belief. They have bastardized the word for their own purpose. You already know this of course, but you are attempting to create a point where one doesn't exist so that you can defend Chomsky because you agree with a lot, if not all of, his ideas and aren't willing to admit that you support a Communist state. But that's okay. You don't have to admit it. We already know that you do.

Sam you'd be more of an economic libertarian in the mould of Hayek wouldn't you? If so then that doesn't clash with the ideas already mentioned. It seems to me that Chomsky and the others sharing his beliefs reject authoritarian communism such as we've seen in the Soviet Bloc and China and Vietnam etc. and instead see the individual as of prime importance.

Diuretic · #53 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

AOM - don't knock Wikipedia too hard, I mean it's an open encyclopaedia, that means anyone can come along and edit it but it doesn't mean there's no quality control. I prefer it to a closed, proprietary sort of encyclopaedia myself. And I really didn't see anything really objectionable in the references provided.

EricOKC · #54 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

I don't know who your friends are or what their politics are...but the VAST middle of America wants Single-Payer Healthcare run by the government...and they wouldn't mind higher taxes to get it.

What color is the sky in your world?

Im not even going to look at the rest of your post. You're so woefully misinformed it isnt even worth the trouble.

EricOKC · #55 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

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Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

This comes from the recent book by Noam Chomsky--which I just happen to be reading at the moment--and which is rigorously documented. I quote from page 225, about halfway down:

Noam Chomsky? ROFL! Oh thats funny!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

Now, unless you're prepared to argue with an esteemed gentleman who has more honorary degrees than you have fingers and toes, I would suggest it is YOUR statement which is "100% false."

He's a fucking idiot on a GOOD day. The man is slightly to the left of Lenin for pete's sake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

Don't argue with me. I cheat. I use something called facts.

If you're quoting Chomsky as an authority on this or any other topic, you wouldnt know a fact if it sat on your face.

EricOKC · #56 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

All you specimens have disparaged a man who has more honorary degrees than you've got fingers and toes with NO justification whatsoever.

You realize an honorary degree means nothing dont you?

My friend, Chomsky is a communist and a fool. If you wish to believe he has a clue, feel free to do so. If you wish to live in a manner he would support, allow me to suggest you move to China.

Diuretic · #57 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricOKC

You realize an honorary degree means nothing dont you?

My friend, Chomsky is a communist and a fool. If you wish to believe he has a clue, feel free to do so. If you wish to live in a manner he would support, allow me to suggest you move to China.

I would think Chomsky would see China as being exactly the sort of place he would abhor, it's totalitarian.

SamInTheSouth · #58 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

Wikipedia? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! WIKIPEDIA?!?

You can't do any better than an encyclopedia edited by anybody who comes along? And it STILL doesn't call him a Comminist???

You are not merely an excruciating waste of time, you are not worth one more keystroke of mine.

Not one. Begone.

If I'm a waste of time why do you continue to answer me?

SamInTheSouth · #59 (**permalink**) 04-09-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diuretic

It seems to me that Chomsky and the others sharing his beliefs reject authoritarian communism such as we've seen in the Soviet Bloc and China and Vietnam etc. and instead see the individual as of prime importance.

Requoting from the text:

Quote:

a society in which individuals co-operate freely as equals. This would be achieved through the abolition of private property

Communism with a focus on individuality is an oxymoron. It's like having an open secret. You can't believe in the individual as of prime importance and believe in Communism because Communism is for the collective good, not the individual. Chomsky supports an ideology that believes in the abolition of private property, therefore he can't see the individual as prime importance.