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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
goober's Avatar
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America moves to the Left

Interesting poll results from the Pew Research Center.

In 2002, 43% of Americans identified themselves as Republicans or said they lean toward Republican values at the same time 43% of Americans identified themselves as Democrats or said they lean toward Democratic values.

In the latest survey its 50% Democratic-Lean Democratic vs 35% Republican-Lean Republican.

Americans pray less, are more likely to doubt the existence of God, they are more tolerant of gays, and feel that government should play a larger role in society and that the military should play a smaller role than they have in decades.

Summary of Findings: Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007

Good news for Democrats
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"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

I wouldn't say left. America doesn't want to be radical like the way the Republican party is now.

America is too far to the right, that's the problem. Americans want to get rid of the radical elements in their government that was catapulted by the Rubberstamp Congress and the Bush Administration.

America moves away from radical views.
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Old 03-26-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

I think there is a natural progression as a society matures to socialize those areas of the economy where the free market has never really existed. When a society modernizes at a rapid rate, there will be a reactionary backlash.

What has happened is a backlash against modernization, putting people like Reagan and Bush into power, much like the Iranians responded to modernization by empowering the Ayatollahs, people who talk about the good old days and old time values. These people are very comforting to the masses traumatized by rapid progress, but they offer no real workable framework for a modern society, and usually are swept away after a few decades.

The country tried the Conservative thing and all we got was a couple of trillion in debt to show for it, now the people are moving back onto path of the New Deal and the Great Society, to the future and beyond.........
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2007
U.S. House Representative

 
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Re: America moves to the Left

There's about as much of a chance is this country ever moving left in any significant respect as there is of Axl and Slash ever getting on the same stage again. There is no left-wing tradition in American politics.
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Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

This is why GOD will end the world in 2012!
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider View Post
There's about as much of a chance is this country ever moving left in any significant respect as there is of Axl and Slash ever getting on the same stage again. There is no left-wing tradition in American politics.
As a society progresses, and the average level of education goes up, it becomes more leftist, this is one driver of the process. The other driver is the fact that the right have no workable solutions, and that every time the electorate flirts with the right, disaster results. The Republican dominance of the last 6 years, is the seed of the coming decades of Democratic hegemony over the US political process.
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
to the future and beyond.........
Or until the Democrats totally screw everything up, eventually make the country lean back to the right and the great cycle continues...
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Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
As a society progresses, and the average level of education goes up, it becomes more leftist, this is one driver of the process.
Failed 19th Century economic policies are not progression.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speakeasy View Post
Or until the Democrats totally screw everything up, eventually make the country lean back to the right and the great cycle continues...
That took over 60 years last time.
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2007
U.S. House Representative

 
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
As a society progresses, and the average level of education goes up, it becomes more leftist, this is one driver of the process.
I suppose that depends how you define leftism. Given that I believe the linear left/right political scale is largely outdated and irrelevant, the term means nothing to me. I think in terms of conservatism, liberalism, and radicalism. And as things are right now, liberalism has basically conquered the world, and shows no sign of being replaced by anything any time soon. Of course, when I say liberalism, I mean classical liberalism, which I don't think is what you're thinking of.

Quote:
The other driver is the fact that the right have no workable solutions, and that every time the electorate flirts with the right, disaster results.
How so? My reading of history might be wrong, but it strikes me that during the 1970s and 80s, the Dems were holding their feet against the door trying to ignore the end of the industrial era and pretend that massive structural changes in the economy weren't ocurring. It took a centrist governor to flat out say that if the Dems didn't move to the center, they'd never win again. He was then attacked by many on the left of his party as being 'republican-lite'. Thankfully, he ignored them. If you want to see Reagan's true ideological heir, look no further than Bill Clinton (I realize this is treading on holy writ for both sides, but what the hell).

If the right have no workable solutions, then you've really gotta ask yourself why so many of the things that were policy during the 1980s have more or less become accepted wisdom in American politics. Why are no Dems are suggesting we return to the pre-1980s Keynesian consensus?

Quote:
The Republican dominance of the last 6 years, is the seed of the coming decades of Democratic hegemony over the US political process.
The last 6? Don't you mean the last 30? The only movement that's been as powerful as the American conservative movement was the New Deal coalition. The GOP could not return to power for another 50 years, and everyone would still simply be operating in the framework the conservative movement established.

Seriously, don't you find it the slightest bit significant that the most successful Democratic president in the past 50 years governed like a moderate Republican? What does that indicate to you about the center of gravity in American politics?

Last edited by Strider; 03-27-2007 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
As a society progresses, and the average level of education goes up, it becomes more leftist, this is one driver of the process. The other driver is the fact that the right have no workable solutions, and that every time the electorate flirts with the right, disaster results. The Republican dominance of the last 6 years, is the seed of the coming decades of Democratic hegemony over the US political process.
Maybe if we evolve to the level of a hive mind socialism will start to work, but until then, capitalism is the natural thing to do. Socialism won't work until then. Doing anything other than capitalism requires pretending and going against what comes natural, assuming that everyone else will be a good socialist. But as it stands, people are naturally greedy and self-centered (the opposite of a hive mind) and thus socialism will fail, as it has in the past.
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Old 03-27-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
Americans pray less...Good news for Democrats
I thought this was amusing. Pardon the severe editing of the quote.

More seriously, I think the directions such as "left" and "right" have pretty much ceased to mean much of anything; the lines seem to have blurred so much over the last 10 years.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

just remember the ops author wants a total left bias and the same extremism that the country doesnt want now, no checks and balances and a one party rule

one party , one view but this time left which is what this poll is saying the country doesnt want really thus the lean to the middle left..............

the poll wasnt talking YOUR left goober
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

The best of both world is a slice from both. Liberal on social issues like tolerance of minorities and sexual orientation, freedoms like less restrictions on drugs & alcohol (guns being the exception), less emphasis on religion and conservative on economic issues like low taxes, smaller government & social programs (except essentials like healthcare, education), big military.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2007
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Re: America moves to the Left

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkasan View Post
just remember the ops author wants a total left bias and the same extremism that the country doesnt want now, no checks and balances and a one party rule

one party , one view but this time left which is what this poll is saying the country doesnt want really thus the lean to the middle left..............

the poll wasnt talking YOUR left goober
Is that what they tell you the Democrats want?

Because even in the post you were thinking of, I left plenty of Republicans in place, I just wanted huge cloture proof majorities, to get the kind of legislation the country needs passed, without having to give away the farm to get it.
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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address
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