Yes, all the candidates say dumb things.

Apparently, though, we're not permitted to discuss the ones Obama says.

Of the 15 posts in the thread, a third of them are complaining about the thread itself.

And remarkably, when asked, none of those folks could point out where Obama had mentioned anything else of substance on the two issues involved.

Matt

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I just don't see why it is unique. It seems like this is more about making fun of a touchy feely comment then a discussion. I decided to discuss why this particular one stands out. I am not really jumping on this to defend him in general. I'm not supporting him in the primary and I think he doesn't have the experience he needs and has no shown a real grasp on policy yet in the debates or in his speeches which sound more motivational than knowledgeable. So no I was not saying we can't critique Obama but I am saying that I think this is more about not liking the tone of his comments than vague comments in general which have been present in his speeches since I have been paying attention anyway. I guess I should have just said yes Matt that is a silly comment and I hate that sentimental crap. Why couldn't he just say executive the people like a man?

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

No one can even address the problems of gun violence without the gun crowd screaming "they are coming for our guns". A sensible discussion is just not possible. It's like a reflex, a Pavlovian conditioning.

Perhaps he's taking a page from the GWB book of fighting "terror":

"People say to me, you know, Mr. President, what can I do in the war against terror? My answer is, love your neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself." -- George W. Bush May 1, 2002

Of course all politicians offer up trite platitudes for the masses (or at least their speech writers do). I wouldn't mistake that kind of hippie crap for their actual take on matters of policy.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Almost nobody would think that somebody should be able to own a dirty bomb, or biological weapons which means we almost all agree that some limits should be put on what weapons we can own. I personally have no desire to see handguns or hunting rifles made illegal. However, I do not see a real purpose for assault weapons unless maybe somebody made an entire mob into his enemy and he is going to have to combat a small riot at his/her residence. I say that and a few members on here go nuts and get pretty hostile even though I doubt they ever had a case in which one of these weapons came in handy for legitimate purposes for them.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Oh, sorry. I took his advocating a gun ban to mean he is in favor of a gun ban.....

Silly me.

Matt

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LE, including BATFE, is calling for legislation that a round be fired from all guns sold through a licensed gun dealer and kept on record in a national ballistics database. This is normally performed at the manufacturer level and theoretically allows LE to match ballistics to guns used in crimes.

The glaring fault in such legislation is the proven fact that most all guns used in crimes are street guns; either obtained through burglaries or other illegal means. The NRA opposes it as an invasion of privacy amounting to national gun registration.

Just out of curiosity, can you tell me what makes an "assault weapon" an assault weapon?

Is it more powerful that a "normal" gun?

Matt

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This is what was used to define assault weapons in the ban.


* A detachable magazine holding more than 10 rounds.
* Military-style appearance, including semi-automatic replicas of military selective-fire assault rifles and machine guns
* A folding or telescoping stock
* Attached grenade launchers such as the M203 or rifle grenade
* On rifles and shotguns, pistol grips that extend vertically from the stock
* A bayonet lug
* Threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash suppressor, muzzle brake, or sound suppressor
* Weapons that include a barrel shroud
* On pistols, those on which the magazine attaches outside of the pistol grip
* A forward mounted pistol grip

Does that help or where you just trying to give me a pop quiz to prove your superior knowledge on the subject? When it comes to hunting I do not see the use for these things. When it comes to protection against somebody breaking in to rob or murder it does seem to go well beyond overkill.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

It's basically an image issue. Most weapons designated as assault pieces, both shoulder and side arms, are semi-automatic versions of LE and military weapons. High capacity magazines with 18" barrels are the norm. Many hunters now use the AK style semi-automatics as they're virtually indestructible and take cheap ammunition. Assault weapons are generally manufactured for ammunition comparable to standard hunting ammunition, so no, they're no more powerful than a 'normal' gun.

Matt,

1) What Gun Ban does Obama support here? AK-47's and unregistered guns who's ballistics can't be tracked?

... I'd say that's a good thing.

To characterize tougher gun laws as a gun ban is hyperbole.

2) For the part about the criminals commiting crimes because they don't love themselves, I'd say Obama's assessment of the root cause is at least grounded in some experience working as a community organizer in low-income areas of Chicago and New York. When he says "we" aren't loving them enough, I'm pretty sure he doesn't mean himself.... or internet forum posters... I would gather he means the would be criminal's parents, the would be criminal's freinds, the would be criminal's teachers...

That's a valid point. What's wrong with that? Do you forsee some misguided legislation that's going to force people to love criminals? I don't think you need to have any fear of that.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more partisan thread created by one of the moderators of this forum...

All I see in your post is Anti-Obama sentiment and mischaracterization of some quotations. If this is the only mud you can find to sling, the Obama campaign is in pretty good shape.

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!

They are not more powerful but are designed to take out multiple targets very fast. I guess it is for when the lynch mob shows up at your house.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

They're becoming very common with hunters due to their indestructible construction (you can drop an AK action in the mud and it functions as if nothing happened) and cheap ammunition. The reason for their immense popularity is cheap to buy and cheap to operate as plinkers. As to personal protection, that's obviously a personal preference.

Could guns more suitable for hunting be manufactured with those advantages minus the ones in the assault ban?

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

So do several traditional rifles in semi-automatic form marketed solely to the hunting crowd. Remington and others have made them for over 100-years. They're far more expensive than a semi-auto AK or AK knockoff and hence far less popular.