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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
SonofaHun's Avatar
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Thoughts on Obama

There’s a lot of time left before the election, and I’m not ready to make up my mind about candidates this early in the race. But from the get go, I’ve hoped Obama would emerge from this thing as the victor. In other words, I WANT to want to vote for him, and hope he gives me and others reasons to do so. Not so much because of what he says, what he promises, or where he stands on issues, but because of the striking change in the course of our political system he would represent just by winning. I was planning to break down his potential more specifically, but then I came across the following opinion piece that mirrors my own thoughts. I think the author gives a balanced assessment of the man—both qualities and flaws.

I’m looking for a substantial change in direction that marks the beginning of a new political era. Like the author of the piece, I think Obama is the only candidate who has the potential of bringing this about. Anybody else feel the same way?

Quote:
Is Iraq Vietnam? Who really won in 2000? Which side are you on in the culture wars? These questions have divided the Baby Boomers and distorted our politics. One candidate could transcend them.

by Andrew Sullivan

Goodbye to All That

The logic behind the candidacy of Barack Obama is not, in the end, about Barack Obama. It has little to do with his policy proposals, which are very close to his Democratic rivals’ and which, with a few exceptions, exist firmly within the conventions of our politics. It has little to do with Obama’s considerable skills as a conciliator, legislator, or even thinker. It has even less to do with his ideological pedigree or legal background or rhetorical skills. Yes, as the many profiles prove, he has considerable intelligence and not a little guile. But so do others, not least his formidably polished and practiced opponent Senator Hillary Clinton.

Obama, moreover, is no saint. He has flaws and tics: Often tired, sometimes crabby, intermittently solipsistic, he’s a surprisingly uneven campaigner.

But he knows, and privately acknowledges, that the fundamental point of his candidacy is that it is happening now. In politics, timing matters. And the most persuasive case for Obama has less to do with him than with the moment he is meeting. The moment has been a long time coming, and it is the result of a confluence of events, from one traumatizing war in Southeast Asia to another in the most fractious country in the Middle East. The legacy is a cultural climate that stultifies our politics and corrupts our discourse.

Obama’s candidacy in this sense is a potentially transformational one. Unlike any of the other candidates, he could take America—finally—past the debilitating, self-perpetuating family quarrel of the Baby Boom generation that has long engulfed all of us. So much has happened in America in the past seven years, let alone the past 40, that we can be forgiven for focusing on the present and the immediate future. But it is only when you take several large steps back into the long past that the full logic of an Obama presidency stares directly—and uncomfortably—at you.

At its best, the Obama candidacy is about ending a war—not so much the war in Iraq, which now has a mo*mentum that will propel the occupation into the next decade—but the war within America that has prevailed since Vietnam and that shows dangerous signs of intensifying, a nonviolent civil war that has crippled America at the very time the world needs it most. It is a war about war—and about culture and about religion and about race. And in that war, Obama—and Obama alone—offers the possibility of a truce.
Much more (long article)
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
TheLastBoyScout's Avatar
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Obama's in a tough position. Before the mainstream got a chance to know him, he was touted as being "inspirational".

It's hard to pull it off when someone puts you on a stage and says "Be funny" and "Entertain Me". It's also hard when someone puts you on TV and says "Inspire Me".

The times of "I have a dream" speeches are really gone since we are now flooded with information, but I think people tuned in to Obama expecting him to inspire them and when he did not, they dismissed him.

There is substance to the man and there is character. When he says he want to make political influences transparent, he means it and he's done it.

I think Obama's main drawback is that he's too intellectual and not enough of an entertainer for the American public. Perhaps he's just a little too real and a little too boring, and that doesn't capture the headlines or the attention.

I'm not sure what it would actually take to inspire a cynical America.

Having said that, I was never looking to be inspired, I was just trying to figure out the best person for bringing America together again. I think Obama's evenhanded and logical demeanor can do it, or at least hast the best chance. Obama is getting my vote. I don't want to be faced with a ballot that just has Guiliani or Hillary on it.... to me that would just represent a continuation of the status quo.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
Michael's Avatar
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Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

One of Obama's problems, as sad as it is, is his mindset. His messages and his thoughts are detailed and well thought out, and take longer to explain than the normal sound bites (9/11, Islamofascists, Defeatocrats, etc). So it's harder to maintain the attention of the people with it. It's possible that he may be too much like the Obama we saw in 2004 -- the Obama with a message of hope, compared to the mudslinging we see ad nauseum in the political arena.

Thankfully though, he's presented some very reasonable positions to issues recently. He needs to continue to do this.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

The thing about Obama is that he seems to be running on emotions. He wants to motivate people and make them feel like there is this barrier between generations and such. I'm more interested in a candidates capability, similarity to my own positions, experience, and grasp of policy. Obama does seem to fit my positions pretty close compared to many of the candidates on those occasions it is clear what his positions are but on the other three I just don't think he cuts it.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

He voted NO on parental notification for minors getting an abortion.
Voted NO on reforming bankruptcy to include means-testing & restrictions
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government.

He also supports unconstitutional "race favoring"
  • Indicate the principles you support concerning affirmative action. Should state government agencies take race and sex into account in the following sectors?
  • Q: College and university admissions? A: Yes
  • Q: Public employment A: Yes
  • Q: State contracting? A: Yes.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamwhatiseem View Post
He voted NO on parental notification for minors getting an abortion.
Voted NO on reforming bankruptcy to include means-testing & restrictions
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government.

He also supports unconstitutional "race favoring"
  • Indicate the principles you support concerning affirmative action. Should state government agencies take race and sex into account in the following sectors?
  • Q: College and university admissions? A: Yes
  • Q: Public employment A: Yes
  • Q: State contracting? A: Yes.
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
Obama was a civil rights lawyer (and is black), so those votes shouldn't take you by surprise.

It seems a rather short complaint list for a Senator's voting record. Pull up other democratic candidates' voting records (if they have one) on the same bills for comparison and see what you disagree with.

Perhaps "On the issues", you're likely not to be personally aligned with any of the democratic candidates.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
partofme's Avatar
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
Obama was a civil rights lawyer (and is black), so those votes shouldn't take you by surprise.

It seems a rather short complaint list for a Senator's voting record. Pull up other democratic candidates' voting records (if they have one) on the same bills for comparison and see what you disagree with.

Perhaps "On the issues", you're likely not to be personally aligned with any of the democratic candidates.
That is a big part of why senators have trouble in presidential elections. They vote on so much that it's easy to cherry pick things many do not like. In many cases you can show they voted for something that is unpopular that was a small part of a bigger bill that was very popular and in others something good is tacked onto a bad bill and they can just say they voted against what most view as the good part of the bill.
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Old 11-09-2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Doesn't Obama's Islamic background bother you at all??
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberella View Post
Doesn't Obama's Islamic background bother you at all??

That's true. He may suicide bomb the white house once he gets in.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
SamInTheSouth's Avatar
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberella View Post
Doesn't Obama's Islamic background bother you at all??
Why would it? There is nothing about Barak Obama that appears remotely Islamic to me. There are plenty of other reasons to not put him the White House without attacking his alleged religious upbringing of yesteryear.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
Michael's Avatar
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Member Since: Oct 2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberella View Post
Doesn't Obama's Islamic background bother you at all??
What Islamic background?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
soot's Avatar
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberella View Post
Doesn't Obama's Islamic background bother you at all??
Absolutely.

He belongs on a waterboard, not in the White House.

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2007
Cyberella's Avatar
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Member Since: Nov 2007
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

There is nothing about Barack Obama that seems Islamic to you?
Barack Hussein Obama's father, stepfather and grandfather were Muslims. He was by Islamic law born a Muslim. This cannot be changed. Mohammed said if anyone turns his back on Islam, kill him. (Vol. 9:57 )

And how about this:

By THOMAS BEAUMONT
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
March 12, 2007
Muscatine, Ia. - Illinois Sen.
'NOBODY IS SUFFERING MORE THAN THE PALENTINIAN PEOPLE,' OBAMA SAID, while on the final leg of his weekend trip to eastern Iowa.
The Palestinian Authority is controlled by Hamas, a political party that does not recognize Israel's sovereignty and is listed by several countries - including the United States - as a terrorist organization. The United States and other nations imposed restrictions on aid when Hamas gained power last year.
DesMoinesRegister.com

and this:
THE HALAL FOOD ACT WAS SPONSORED BY BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMS. in August 2001.
"This law will give Muslims in Illinois confidence that the Halal food products they buy are indeed prepared according to Islamic law."'
"Senate Bill 750 was sponsored in by Senators Christine Radogno, R-La Grange, Laurence Walsh, D-Elwood, Barack Obama,..."
Illinois.gov - Illinois Government News Network (IGNN) - Search the News Results
Obama's pastor admits concerns over candidate's ties to Islam
Chad Groening
OneNewsNow.com
March 21, 2007
The head of a pro-Israel ministry is praising the PASTOR OF Democratic presidential candidate Barack OBAMA'S church for ADMITTING HIS CONCERNS ABOUT the Illinois senator's (OBAMA's) ASSOCIATION WITH THE PALESTINIANS AND THE NATION OF ISLAM leader Louis Farrakhan.
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/03/ob...s_concerns.php
...in two separate interviews, Pastor Wright has REVEALED HIS CONCERNS ABOUT OBAMA'S PRO-ISLAMIC LEANINGS.
Markell FEARS THAT IF OBAMA BECOMES PRESIDENT, THE UNITED STATES WILL BLATANTLY TURN ITS BACK ON ISRAEL- AND SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES later.
OBAMA'S PASTOR, REV WRIGHT, TOLD THE NEW YORK TIMES in an interview published March "WHEN HIS (OBAMA) ENEMIES FIND OUT THAT IN 1984 HE WENT TO TRIPOLI WITH THE NATION OF ISLAM LEADERI Louis Farrakhan TO VISIT LIBYAN LEADER MOAMMAR GADHAFI,"a lot of HIS JEWISH SUPPORT WILL DRY UP quicker than a snowball in hell."
In a statement to the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday, Gibbs amended that declaration, saying: “Obama has never been a practicing Muslim,” the key word being “practicing.”
But a BOYHOOD FRIEND of Obama in Indonesia, Zulfin Adi, TOLD THE TIMES; "His mother often went to the church, but Barry [Barack’s name at the time] was Muslim. HE WENT TO THE MOSQUE.”
HIS FIRST GRADE TEACHER Israella Dharmawan TOLD THE TIMES: “At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim. HE WAS REGISTERED AS A MUSLIM because his father was Muslim.”
IN THE THIRD GRADE, OBAMA TRANSFERRED TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL, WHERE HE WAS ALSO REGISTERED AS A MUSLIM. MUSLIM STUDENT AT THE SCHOOL ATTENDED WEEKLY RELIGION LESSONS ABOUT ISLAM, TAUGHT BY A MUSLIM.

Then there is Obama's racist church.
He joined a Christian church because he knew it was a good cover. A Muslim might have trouble getting into the presidency. DECEPTION and lies are allowed in Islam to achieve its goal. The word for this is taqiyya.

Just read the statement from this church and insert White where it states Black. Trinity United Church of Christ
Trinity United Church of Christ;
We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. "WE ARE AFRICAN PEOPLE, AND REMAIN TRUE TO OUR NATIVE LAND"..
Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:
Commitment to God
COMMITMENT TO THE BLACK COMMUNITY
COMMITMENT TO THE BLACK FAMILY
Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence
ADHERENCE TO THE BLACK WORK ETHIC
Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect
Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness"
Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions
PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO ALL BLACK LEADERSHIP WHO ESPOUSE AND EMBRACE THE BLACK VALUE SYSTEM. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
A congregation committed to ADORATION.
A congregation preaching SALVATION.
A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2007
Michael's Avatar
City Mayor

 
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 213

United_States     Indiana

Re: Thoughts on Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberella View Post
There is nothing about Barack Obama that seems Islamic to you?
Barack Hussein Obama's father, stepfather and grandfather were Muslims. He was by Islamic law born a Muslim. This cannot be changed. Mohammed said if anyone turns his back on Islam, kill him. (Vol. 9:57 )
So basically, he's a Muslim at heart because someone else says he is? Get real.

Quote:
And how about this:

By THOMAS BEAUMONT
REGISTER STAFF WRITER
March 12, 2007
Muscatine, Ia. - Illinois Sen.
'NOBODY IS SUFFERING MORE THAN THE PALENTINIAN PEOPLE,' OBAMA SAID, while on the final leg of his weekend trip to eastern Iowa.
The Palestinian Authority is controlled by Hamas, a political party that does not recognize Israel's sovereignty and is listed by several countries - including the United States - as a terrorist organization. The United States and other nations imposed restrictions on aid when Hamas gained power last year.
DesMoinesRegister.com
So? The Palestinian people are suffering. They get scapegoated as horrible people by the people who swept under the rug the blatant and intentional strike against the U.S.S. Liberty. The Israeli lobby, those who refuse to even think that Israelis could do anything wrong and that everything is the fault of the Palestinians, are full of idiots.

Quote:
and this:
THE HALAL FOOD ACT WAS SPONSORED BY BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMS. in August 2001.
"This law will give Muslims in Illinois confidence that the Halal food products they buy are indeed prepared according to Islamic law."'
"Senate Bill 750 was sponsored in by Senators Christine Radogno, R-La Grange, Laurence Walsh, D-Elwood, Barack Obama,..."
Illinois.gov - Illinois Government News Network (IGNN) - Search the News Results
It couldnt have anything to do with Obama being from Illinois, could it?

Quote:
But a BOYHOOD FRIEND of Obama in Indonesia, Zulfin Adi, TOLD THE TIMES; "His mother often went to the church, but Barry [Barack’s name at the time] was Muslim. HE WENT TO THE MOSQUE.”
HIS FIRST GRADE TEACHER Israella Dharmawan TOLD THE TIMES: “At that time, Barry was also praying in a Catholic way, but Barry was Muslim. HE WAS REGISTERED AS A MUSLIM because his father was Muslim.”
So, again, he's Muslim because someone else says he's a Muslim because his father was? Okay.

Quote:
IN THE THIRD GRADE, OBAMA TRANSFERRED TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL, WHERE HE WAS ALSO REGISTERED AS A MUSLIM. MUSLIM STUDENT AT THE SCHOOL ATTENDED WEEKLY RELIGION LESSONS ABOUT ISLAM, TAUGHT BY A MUSLIM.
Wow. So Obama went to a predominantly Muslim school. It couldnt have anything to do with Indonesia having the highest concentration of Muslims in the world...

Quote:
He joined a Christian church because he knew it was a good cover. A Muslim might have trouble getting into the presidency.
You need to stock up on some more tinfoil.

Quote:
DECEPTION and lies are allowed in Islam to achieve its goal. The word for this is taqiyya.
Show me. Book, chapter, verse please.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-2007
Jason Marcel's Avatar
Vice President
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Member Since: Mar 2004
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Re: Thoughts on Obama

I think a lot of people see the future of the Democratic Party when they look at Obama, but from one issue to the next in this campaign, he is for huge wasteful government. I think the current system in the US is broken and that most every candidate is lost on foreign policy, except for Ron Paul.

Obama said he's against the war, but now he can't say whether or not he'll be able to get the troops out by the end of his first term. And he's starting to sound like a candidate who speaks from the results of the polls instead of what he really wants to say. He wasn't a bulldog enough, so now he's coming out and punching at Hillary more. Wherever Obama and Clinton are, they tailor their messages to those crowds, and that's dangerous to me because you lose what it is they actually stand for.

Obama lacks experience. I just don't think he'll know what to do right away if elected, I expect that it would take him awhile to get adjusted precisely when we need a president who will jump in and make big corrections immediately. Obama hasn't said anything about dismantling the Homeland Security Dept or phasing out the Patriot Act, doesn't talk much about the environment, mostly is attacking Hillary now for her stance on Iran.

He's a nice guy and all, but we need to really stop voting for the one we'd most want to have dinner with or hang with or sleep with or whatever. It's about saving America right now and it's a job that I think would overwhelm Obama.
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