Caucases - Page 2 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

pramjockey · #16 (**permalink**) 01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairballxavier

Actually the Republican caucus is done by ballots where they write down the their candidate. Then they count the ballots.

The Democratic caucus is different, but quite interesting. They all literally go stand in their favorite candidates section. Then they count hands. Any candidate that doesn't have at least 15% is deemed unviable in that precinct. So then all those people can then make a second choice candidate. Then supporters of the top candidates go and try to talk the supporters of the unviable candidates and the undecideds to come to their corner as a second choice.

Then they recount again.

There were reports in Iowa that the Richardson camp was steering its supporters toward Obama in the precincts where Richardson was unviable. If true, that could explain Obama's unexpectedly strong showing.

Well explained.

I liked Olbermann's commentary on the system this evening, and especially on how it's so overvalued.

Oreo · #17 (**permalink**) 01-03-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Once again, Americans say they want change, and then vote for more of the same. Yeah, Obama's got the "Change" mantra on his candidacy but he also said today that universal healthcare can be affordable especially if the country invests in preventive care like if "obese people get dieticians". I'm not kidding. He actually said that.

Predictably, Iowans voted for "Character" more than any one issue. Both Obama and Huckabee have not called for an immediate end to the wars, and both of them are out of step about immigration.

I'm still amazed by how many stupid people there are in America. Fred Thompson with 14%? He's an old, lazy idiot who has nothing going for him who is just another warmonger, and people actually left their houses, went into the cold so they could vote for his old ass. It amazes me.

Romney's night is an apparent disappointment, but 24% to me is still way more than he deserves, considering he's a great big phoney. But that's America; they like slick phoneys because they have no way to tell the difference, even if you inform them that he's changed so many of his positions.

As for Ron Paul, his 10% is right about what I thought he would get. I'm happy he finished ahead of Giuliani, but I was hoping he would eek it out over either McCain or Thompson. But for Paul, double digits is a nice start and now he gets to move on to a much smarter state with more independent-minded voters.

Obese dietitions? One thing for certain, people who do not take care of themselves are a major drag on the medical industry. Type 2 diabetes is up, now in the top 5 of our diseases & still growing at an alarming rate, especially in youngsters. Preventing disease before they become major surgery, diabetes etc. etc. is much cheaper & a much healthier alternative.

Americans need afforable health care. This is my number 1 issue in this race.

Number 2 is energy. I believe America should be completely energy independent. I would also like to see much more clean/renewable alternative energy.

The oddity--I am a dyed in the wool Republican.

Anyone, including any democrat who talks like he/she is going to take on these important issues, is going to get my vote this year, regardless of what party they're from.

goober · #18 (**permalink**) 01-03-2008

Iowa and New Hampshire are retail states, where candidates meet the voters in person, the big states are much more dependent on TV and MONEY.
Hilary and Mitt aren't out yet, regardless of what happens Tuesday.
But Obama has momentum, and a ton of cash, so he'll be competitive for the long haul. Huckabee has momentum, but I'm not sure if he appeals to the big money behind the GOP, they are much more comfortable with a candidate to who uses "summer" as a verb, like Romney.

Jason Marcel · #19 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatech

You know, just as an aside, if I never hear the phrase, "fly-over country" again it will be too soon. When you use it, people who live in mostly rural, western and mid-western states cringe and start looking for a shovel. Try visiting one of these places before you use that phrase again, I can guarantee that you will have a different perspective after you do. I can even recommend a few places in your area.

Dude, you can't even talk. You come from the state where that big-gay-bathroom-Senator is from, right? I love the heartland in my own way, but I'm very critical of it because in general, those people especially like religion and character and words and they believe what you say just because you say it. I think actions speak louder than words. Fly-over-country isn't meant to be negative, but as long as they vote for easy smiles and charm over principled integrity and reason, I will remain critical. Sorry. Any state that puts that Gomer Huckabee first deserves to be made fun of a bit.

Jason Marcel · #20 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

This whole thing is so exciting and fascinating to me. The story will continue to play out, as Huckabee rises some with evangelicals, and how Romney and Thompson fall in NH while Paul and McCain get a bump.

My prediction is that McCain will win NH, Paul might very well finish third now, while 2nd is a complete wildcard; can Huckabee really get that much of a bump in NH? I doubt it. Obama's win in Iowa is much more meaningful to him than Huckabee's win.

If Obama beats Hillary again, he will win the nomination, unless Hillary were to give her support to Edwards. Whatever happens, the third place person in NH will end up deciding who the Democratic nominee will be.

Romney's campaign will tailspin. NH likes establishment guy McCain over Thompson.

I'm just not sure where Giuliani fits in the picture. I think his campaign is in serious trouble while no one is talking about it.

Obama's speech last night was inspiring. He could be the biggest thing since Bobby Kennedy.

My feeling about Ron Paul is that to score double digits in a religious-heavy state like Iowa is pretty good. He could do 15% easy on Tuesday, depending on how much the Independent vote splits between him and McCain. We need a couple big casualties and some strong Independent votes for Paul to really make a charge, but it's really exciting to watch.

Hillary Clinton must win NH now, or else that's it, she's done.

skeptic1 · #21 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Dude, you can't even talk. You come from the state where that big-gay-bathroom-Senator is from, right? I love the heartland in my own way, but I'm very critical of it because in general, those people especially like religion and character and words and they believe what you say just because you say it. I think actions speak louder than words. Fly-over-country isn't meant to be negative, but as long as they vote for easy smiles and charm over principled integrity and reason, I will remain critical. Sorry. Any state that puts that Gomer Huckabee first deserves to be made fun of a bit.

Regardless of my Maverick leanings it is hard for me to imagine how anyone can actually criticize the intent of the scriptures in any religion and those who adhere to them. However; Too often it is true,those who "talk the talk do not actually walk the walk". IMO Evangelicals Maine line Christians and all others with a common link to freedom and Justice will see (as they have in Iowa) that Barack Obama is not a preacher as is Huckabee who talks the talk but a well educated "doer" who has "walked th walk" as well and is best suited to bring about "significant" change to take our country back to a position of self and World Wide repect with an economy and social services that benefit the many along with the few. Our current leadership has lost their way and hopefully "we the people" know the correct direction and will return America to a democratic and constitutional form of government.
a

Jason Marcel · #22 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by skeptic1

Regardless of my Maverick leanings it is hard for me to imagine how anyone can actually criticize the intent of the scriptures in any religion and those who adhere to them. However; Too often it is true,those who "talk the talk do not actually walk the walk". IMO Evangelicals Maine line Christians and all others with a common link to freedom and Justice will see (as they have in Iowa) that Barack Obama is not a preacher as is Huckabee who talks the talk but a well educated "doer" who has "walked th walk" as well and is best suited to bring about "significant" change to take our country back to a position of self and World Wide repect with an economy and social services that benefit the many along with the few. Our current leadership has lost their way and hopefully "we the people" know the correct direction and will return America to a democratic and constitutional form of government.
a

I say have your faith, but practice it on Sunday and leave me alone with it. America now has a Republican Party that preaches Moral Values while they also support aggressive pre-emptive wars on third-world countries that never attacked us. That is the height of hypocrisy. I can't take your religion seriously if you try to use it to your own convenience, like when you are for violence but then turn around and preach your scripture. Your scripture is meaningless if you don't back it up with principles.

But above all that, you don't need religion to tell you that attacking third-world countries that were never a threat to us which has tripled the cost of oil is completely cynical and greedy and mad.

America can do great things, but the leadership right now is terrible.

I'm not sold on Obama either. He's all about "CHANGE" and "HOPE" and being a "UNITER", but neglects to ever tell us precisely how he plans to do this. It's like partly listening to Bush in 2000 with this guy except he sounds smarter and more passionate.

hairballxavier · #23 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Dude, you can't even talk. You come from the state where that big-gay-bathroom-Senator is from, right? I love the heartland in my own way, but I'm very critical of it because in general, those people especially like religion and character and words and they believe what you say just because you say it. I think actions speak louder than words. Fly-over-country isn't meant to be negative, but as long as they vote for easy smiles and charm over principled integrity and reason, I will remain critical. Sorry. Any state that puts that Gomer Huckabee first deserves to be made fun of a bit.

So what's your beef with Huckabee? First you said it was experience and I pointed out that he has more experience than every other candidate.

So now what's your problem with him? Could you be specific?

hairballxavier · #24 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Obama's speech last night was inspiring. He could be the biggest thing since Bobby Kennedy.

I thought his rant was simply grandstanding and void of content. All style no substance. The only way people knew when applaud is when he started yelling louder towards the end of a sentence. He was simply manipulating them like pathetic mindless puppets. "When I yell louder to a crescendo it's time for you to cheer".

Why is he yelling in the first place? He was standing in front of a microphone that led to a powerful modern PA system, so there is no need to scream and yell like Hitler or something. This isn't fucking 1932.

MattLarson · #25 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Dude, you can't even talk. You come from the state where that big-gay-bathroom-Senator is from, right? I love the heartland in my own way, but I'm very critical of it because in general, those people especially like religion and character and words and they believe what you say just because you say it. I think actions speak louder than words. Fly-over-country isn't meant to be negative, but as long as they vote for easy smiles and charm over principled integrity and reason, I will remain critical. Sorry. Any state that puts that Gomer Huckabee first deserves to be made fun of a bit.

And yet, if Ron Paul had done better than 5th, you'd be telling us how wise those very same people were, right?

Matt

chassisman · #26 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opa

I'm watching the Iowa caucuses right now. They are counting by the numbers. One guy said "54" and the next guy said "56" What a system. And we base the selection of our president on that. Right now, if you believed Iowa the nominees would be Obama and Huckaby. That would mean two things. A) We are the laughingstock of the rest of the world and B) The people in Iowa are real stupid. There is one other issue if that were to happen. It would result in the largest number op members of both parties staying home on election day.

Please give an example of a country with a perfect election system.

AjaxPress · #27 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

And yet, if Ron Paul had done better than 5th, you'd be telling us how wise those very same people were, right?

Matt

Exactly Matt. Which is why I'm trying to stop resorting to name calling when people vote a certain way. I haven't gotten it down yet but I'm trying.

gene430 · #28 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

A 5 year old illiterate child come not come up with such a screwed up political voting system than a caucus.

Andrewl · #29 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opa

I'm watching the Iowa caucuses right now. They are counting by the numbers. One guy said "54" and the next guy said "56" What a system. And we base the selection of our president on that. Right now, if you believed Iowa the nominees would be Obama and Huckaby. That would mean two things. A) We are the laughingstock of the rest of the world and B) The people in Iowa are real stupid. There is one other issue if that were to happen. It would result in the largest number op members of both parties staying home on election day.

Im a little surprised that Obama won, not so much for Edwards in second. I think they are both candidates who are campaigning on 'change'... which is apparently what democrats want in a big way. Nothing surprising there. Hillary is an old school democrat and people don't want that.

On the other side there is hardly any surprise either. All a republican has to do is imply gayness is immoral and that he wants to make all abortion a crime. Throw in the odd rah rah military boosterism and a republican will easily get the republican vote. That is always the republican advantage, rally the fundamentalists.

All in all, Obama is a mild surprise and Huckabee and Romney are entirely predictable.

Andrew

Lunatech · #30 (**permalink**) 01-04-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Dude, you can't even talk. You come from the state where that big-gay-bathroom-Senator is from, right?

Yes, I am from Idaho, and Larry Craig is one of our senators. You do realize that when his term is over, so is his political career, because of this. Is this why I can't even talk?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

I love the heartland in my own way, but I'm very critical of it because in general, those people especially like religion and character and words and they believe what you say just because you say it.

Meaning, "I have spent exactly zero time in the heartland and think they are a bunch of gullible morons." I've been to Toronto, and worked in that area for four month when I worked for HP. Ever been to Idaho? Have you even met someone from Idaho?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

I think actions speak louder than words. Fly-over-country isn't meant to be negative,

But it is to people who live in these states. That is all I am saying. And the use of that phrase shows a lack of depth of understanding that can only be rivaled by political pundits and foreigners not familiar with our political system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

but as long as they vote for easy smiles and charm over principled integrity and reason, I will remain critical.

Good. The free world is counting on you to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Sorry. Any state that puts that Gomer Huckabee first deserves to be made fun of a bit.

Agreed, but I have different reasons for thinking so. Not because I think that Iowans are any more bucolic than New Yorkers or Angelinos, but because I don't like when people vote their faith.

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