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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2008
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DGG DGG is offline
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McCain Leads in New York

McCain is first at 26 %, Giuliani second at 20 %:

Rasmussen Reports™: New York GOP Primary Poll.
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Old 01-22-2008
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O'Sullivan Bere O'Sullivan Bere is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

It doesn't surprise me. Not only does McCain seem more viable at this time, but the NYC first responders--especially the firemen--are really looking to destroy him. That's been a non-secret secret for quite awhile. It's over many complaints such as:

Quote:
. . . Several American news organisations are preparing exposés of the “untold story” of 9/11 after Giuliani’s dispute with the firefighters became embarrassingly public last week. He was the only leading presidential candidate not to appear at a Washington gathering of the International Association of Fire Fighters, which accused him of showing a “disgraceful lack of respect for the fallen” after the September 11 attacks.

Behind the union’s attack lies the grief and anger of families who believe their loved ones need not have died that day and their conviction that some bodies would never have been recovered had Giuliani had his way.

Jim Riches, 29, had been helping to rescue office workers in the north tower when it collapsed. In the dust and debris, his fellow firefighters did not realise that the south tower had already crashed to the ground. Despite the terrifying noise, survivors say they thought only the top storeys had toppled. They never heard the order to evacuate. “My son could have had 30 minutes to escape,” Riches Sr said.

The firefighters were still using the antiquated “handie-talkie” radios that failed to work during the 1993 bombing of the twin towers, when Giuliani was also mayor. He not only failed to replace them, but also located the city’s new emergency command centre at the World Trade Center against the advice of key officials. It proved useless when it was most needed.

Lack of communication also meant that warnings from police helicopters about an imminent collapse failed to get through.


Riches was one of 343 firefighters who died. His father spent every day sifting through the wreckage for bodies, eager for some sign of his son. In November, Giuliani ordered a halt to the work after the remains of 91 firefighters had been recovered.

“Giuliani told everybody the bodies were pulverised, but I was digging them up every day. It was grisly stuff, limbs, little bones - people were blown to bits - but the bodies were there,” said Riches, 55.

The searchers refused to stop. An ugly clash between the firefighters and the New York police left 18 officers injured. Eventually Giuliani backed down and allowed the work to continue, but not before branding the firefighters’ actions as “sinful”
. . . .
Firemen douse Rudy’s image as 9/11 hero - Times Online

That's just the beginnings of it. And they get into more details and more actions and inactions of what they view as his negligences, cowardices, deceptivenesses, and heartlessnesses and here's what an opening taste of what's coming from the NYFD about why they hate Giuliani intensely. These NYFD videos are must sees for what is in store for him as they go through the long lists of pretty strong grievances and bitternesses:

YouTube - Giuliani Gets Exposed As Fraud by Firefighters

YouTube - FDNY union head speaks out about Rudy's 9/11 blunders

The list of things he did and didn't do before, during and after is really quite awful.
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Last edited by O'Sullivan Bere; 01-22-2008 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 01-22-2008
Jason Marcel Jason Marcel is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Giuliani is losing it badly. He's now at third in Florida with like 18-19%, while Romney is leading there now in a couple new surveys with McCain close in 2nd. Giuliani's slipping in New Jersey, too.

I'm confounded by his campaign. I didn't like his overall message of gloom and doom, but it's surprising to me that he didn't find an audience. He's at least more interesting to listen to than Fred Thompson.

I wonder if Giuliani gets out of the game right after Florida or if he sticks with it and takes another lickin' on Feb.5. He's got something like $7 million left, so he could plant himself up in the north-east and just make his last stand out there.

But it looks like McCain/Romney/Huckabee now with Ron Paul a thorn in everyone's side.
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Old 01-22-2008
Jason Marcel Jason Marcel is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Right, that's why Giuliani and his fire chief were walking the streets so much, they didn't have anywhere to go. That's fascinating.

It's so strange though. Here's a guy who presided over that New York makeover, the city got cleaner, crime went down, and he still couldn't use that to his advantage during the campaign.

It's clear he kept hitting us over the head with the whole "as a survivor of 9/11" thing, but it seemed like we never got to know him beyond that.
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Old 01-22-2008
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O'Sullivan Bere O'Sullivan Bere is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Marcel View Post
Right, that's why Giuliani and his fire chief were walking the streets so much, they didn't have anywhere to go. That's fascinating.

It's so strange though. Here's a guy who presided over that New York makeover, the city got cleaner, crime went down, and he still couldn't use that to his advantage during the campaign.

It's clear he kept hitting us over the head with the whole "as a survivor of 9/11" thing, but it seemed like we never got to know him beyond that.
Yes, they were walking--actually Rudy was fleeing the scene whilst the firemen were going in--given he had earlier ordered the city's disaster response command centre put in WTC7 despite the first responders' advice to put it safely in Brooklyn because the WTC complex was a known terrorist target and it getting attacked would ruin the ability of the first responders to coordinate. That of course happened, and in conjunction with the nonworking walkie talkies he knew needed to be fixed but didn't, left a mass confusion at the site. We all know what happened to WTC7--it collapsed on fire. And even with it being there, it was filled with all sorts of fuel that they also advised Rudi not to additionally instal in there, which of course wound up igniting when the debris fell on it and turned WTC7 into a roman candle and eventually, with the damage, causing it to collapse.

I lost a cousin there and nearly two others and was at the site afterwards. That air nearly burnt my innards out, and yet he kept saying it was safe. Everyone knew it wasn't. You just had to use common sense and smell. Now tonnes of cleanup crews, including firemen, are ill and he didn't properly equip them to address that. He got the Bank of Nova Scotia gold out ASAP as his top priority, but didn't spend the time or desire to help the first responders to retrieve their mates dead or alive. And when he ordered the cleanup after verbally insulting them, he wanted it cleaned ASAP and the stuff dumped in the Fishkill landfill ASAP, the quest to properly filter for remains to the side, and taking precautions for the health of everyone doing so notwithstanding.

The long list is quite incredible.
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Old 01-22-2008
Lunatech Lunatech is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Indeed, most of the New Yorkers I spoke to before 9/11/01 felt he was a jerk, too. Civil liberties took a hit while he was in office, and that seems to be the direction he will head if he is elected president. I know this is crazy, and I think he has pretty much lost the race already, but if he gets the Republican nod, I will vote democrat no matter who the nominee is. And those of you who know me, know how serious that statement is.
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Old 01-22-2008
cwklay cwklay is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Everyone seemed to like Giuliani except for the people who live in New York. That should tell you something.
"Hey look at me! I was mayor when my city got bombed!"
That doesn't tell us anything.

Well Rudy, the next time you PREVENT a 9/11 from happening let me know and we can talk about you being president.
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Old 01-22-2008
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatech View Post
Civil liberties took a hit while he was in office, and that seems to be the direction he will head if he is elected president. .
Really? It looks like taking away our freedoms would be one of the first things on Rudy's to-do list...

Quote:
What we don't see is that freedom is not a concept in which people can do anything they want, be anything they can be. Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do.
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Old 01-22-2008
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Miscreantgnomie Miscreantgnomie is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Mccain is a republicrat :P Who cares
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Old 01-22-2008
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwklay View Post
Well Rudy, the next time you PREVENT a 9/11 from happening let me know and we can talk about you being president.
How fucking idiotic.

I'm sure this will come as a news flash to you, but none of the candidates prevented a 9/11.

Using your special little brand of logic, none of the candidates are qualified...
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Old 01-22-2008
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timj219 timj219 is offline
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Re: McCain Leads in New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
I lost a cousin there and nearly two others and was at the site afterwards. That air nearly burnt my innards out, and yet he kept saying it was safe. Everyone knew it wasn't. You just had to use common sense and smell. Now tonnes of cleanup crews, including firemen, are ill and he didn't properly equip them to address that.
I was at the site soon afterward too and when I think about it I can almost feel again that sharp burning sensation in the nose and throat. And the sour taste. I was incredulous later when I was told Giuliani claimed it was harmless.
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