Visit the U.S. Politics Online Discussion Forum Archives!

Sponsored by:

U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum  

Bookmark Us! E-Mail DONATE NOW! Photo Gallery Document Archives Quiz! Register to Vote!!!
Go Back   U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum > Current Events > Political Parties, Campaigns & Elections
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Political Parties, Campaigns & Elections A forum to discuss political parties and elections/campaigns in general.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #106 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Researchers believe that state-of-the-art lasers have the potential to penetrate rock at 10 to 100 times faster than conventional boring technologies – a huge benefit in reducing the high costs of operating adrill rig.
...

Today, a typical land-based oil or gas well costs around $400,000 to drill, while costs for an offshore well average nearly $4.5 million. But in some deeper or more difficult drilling terrains, costs can be much higher. Reducing the time a drill rig remains on site can lower costs and make previously uneconomic gas oroil deposits commercially attractive.

Source: Laser Oil & Gas Well Drilling [Laser Applications Laboratory] - Nuclear Engineering Division (Argonne), Facilities
Advancing this type of technology could eventually reduce public and private sector costs, as well as make more feasible, such projects as an underground energy transmission grid that can deliver energy to all fifty states, plus Canada and Mexico. With such a system in place, energy deregulation could be more successful than it was in California without such infrastructure.
Reply With Quote
  #107 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CYDdharta View Post
But my position is to simply let the market forces move industry where it will, a law or an EO runs counter to my position.
How does your position account for any Arms Race, Space Race, or drug war or terror war?

What market forces required those expenses to our public treasury?

To be consistent, if you allow for any of those, there how can you be credible in not allowing for forms of public policy that can promote and provide for the general Welfare of the United States?

The common Offense instead of Defense is not specifically enumerated in the same manner as the general Welfare.
Reply With Quote
  #108 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dockman View Post
And yet you still haven't answered the question.
I think funding of this type of order could be considered within the normal budget of the executive branch since it could be accomplish by attrition of older vehicles. A certain portion of new vehicles could be required to be alternative fuel capable, thus creating more of a market for those vehicles and incentive for better product development for the private sector.

With any increase in demand for that type of product, the private sector will have more profit motive to provide better products and lower cost to the (private sector) consumer.
Reply With Quote
  #109 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
CYDdharta's Avatar
Moderator

 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 5,256

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
How does your position account for any Arms Race, Space Race, or drug war or terror war?

What market forces required those expenses to our public treasury?

To be consistent, if you allow for any of those, there how can you be credible in not allowing for forms of public policy that can promote and provide for the general Welfare of the United States?

The common Offense instead of Defense is not specifically enumerated in the same manner as the general Welfare.


The arms race and the space race were great boons for the arms industry, one of the few US industries that has actually grown in recent decades; the War on Drugs, as I’ve posted previously, is a complete waste of time and resources; and the War on Terror is a result of probably the worst attack on the US in our nation’s history.
Reply With Quote
  #110 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Why is it that there is any consideration for making tax cuts permanent, if we are running massive deficits? Shouldn't a balanced budget or massive surpluses precede permanent tax cuts?
Reply With Quote
  #111 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CYDdharta View Post
The arms race and the space race were great boons for the arms industry, one of the few US industries that has actually grown in recent decades; the War on Drugs, as I’ve posted previously, is a complete waste of time and resources; and the War on Terror is a result of probably the worst attack on the US in our nation’s history.
Since you acknowledge that non-market based, public sector initiatives could be a boon to a specific industry, then, wouldn't that also be the case for any industry that can also promote and provide for the general Welfare of the United States, and that could result in lower costs to the public and private sectors?
Reply With Quote
  #112 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: AKRON
Posts: 4,679

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dockman View Post
And yet you still haven't answered the question.
What question would that be? Is there nothing hemp won't do? That question? Yes, there are many things hemp won't do because brainwashed morons have allowed our government to make it illegal to grow in the US, the only industrialized country in the fucking world without a hemp crop.
Reply With Quote
  #113 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
CYDdharta's Avatar
Moderator

 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 5,256

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Since you acknowledge that non-market based, public sector initiatives could be a boon to a specific industry, then, wouldn't that also be the case for any industry that can also promote and provide for the general Welfare of the United States, and that could result in lower costs to the public and private sectors?

Sure, I’m just not convinced a switch to an alternative fuel source at this time would result in a sustained enhancement to the general Welfare of the United States.
Reply With Quote
  #114 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Bunz's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
Independant Idealist

 
Member Since: Jun 2007
Location: Unalaska
Posts: 1,176

Alaska    
Re: Political Issues.

Daniel,
While any way you want cut the issue, it still has be economical in the end. A switch to ethanol isnt worth the efforts if it takes as much fossil fuels to process the ethanol as it would save by burning it.
Also, it must be cheaper than gasoline. Which considering what it is and how much captial it takes to get the oil, oil is quite cheap as a substance.

So really, that will leave us with hydrogen. Unless there is something else on the horizon I dont know about. Which converting to will be quite expensive for everyone, and we need to come up with a viable and inexpensive source of the hydrogen. Natural gas is the most likely source unless we find something else.
Of which there is 35trillion cubic square feet of natural gas on the Alaska north slope just waiting for a transportation method to market.
__________________
Abstinence Education at its finest:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
I wonder how your governor got pregnant....
Reply With Quote
  #115 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CYDdharta View Post
Sure, I’m just not convinced a switch to an alternative fuel source at this time would result in a sustained enhancement to the general Welfare of the United States.
What about advances in those technologies through market forces that can be accomplished via a simple executive order?

Simply purchasing some segment of vehicles by the public sector could create more of a market for more development of those types of vehicles and technologies.

The same economic principle could be applied by requiring any drilling outside of the boundaries of nature preserves since it could generate development in newer technologies that could make future drillings less expensive while maintaining a better environment.
Reply With Quote
  #116 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunz View Post
Daniel,
While any way you want cut the issue, it still has be economical in the end. A switch to ethanol isnt worth the efforts if it takes as much fossil fuels to process the ethanol as it would save by burning it.
Also, it must be cheaper than gasoline. Which considering what it is and how much captial it takes to get the oil, oil is quite cheap as a substance.

So really, that will leave us with hydrogen. Unless there is something else on the horizon I dont know about. Which converting to will be quite expensive for everyone, and we need to come up with a viable and inexpensive source of the hydrogen. Natural gas is the most likely source unless we find something else.
Of which there is 35trillion cubic square feet of natural gas on the Alaska north slope just waiting for a transportation method to market.
Where is the dis-economy in converting to cleaner fuels and technologies by attrition? Those vehicles are already on the market and can only be improved through time and consumer demand.

Your argument would be less disingenuous if we didn't have the practical example of the horse and buggy for comparison. Advances in technology have made what was once practical impractical in modern times. The same argument applies to current fuels and technologies.
Reply With Quote
  #117 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Bunz's Avatar
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member
Independant Idealist

 
Member Since: Jun 2007
Location: Unalaska
Posts: 1,176

Alaska    
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Where is the dis-economy in converting to cleaner fuels and technologies by attrition? Those vehicles are already on the market and can only be improved through time and consumer demand.

Your argument would be less disingenuous if we didn't have the practical example of the horse and buggy for comparison. Advances in technology have made what was once practical impractical in modern times. The same argument applies to current fuels and technologies.
OK, explain to me where I can find 10,000,000 cars using hydrogen as thier fuel source, and where the hydrogren is going to come from, plus who and how will the fuel distribution system work?

What is the incentive for people to change? Take me for example, I own an imported medium size 4wd pickup truck, 10 years old. It is what I need to get around where I live. A car simply wont work. So my truck works great right now, why should I dump my current vehicle for something I probably cant afford nor am I sure it could function better than my current vehicle.

This is far more complicated than a simple Executive Order as you said earlier.
__________________
Abstinence Education at its finest:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
I wonder how your governor got pregnant....
Reply With Quote
  #118 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
CYDdharta's Avatar
Moderator

 
Member Since: Aug 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 5,256

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
What about advances in those technologies through market forces that can be accomplished via a simple executive order?

Simply purchasing some segment of vehicles by the public sector could create more of a market for more development of those types of vehicles and technologies.

The same economic principle could be applied by requiring any drilling outside of the boundaries of nature preserves since it could generate development in newer technologies that could make future drillings less expensive while maintaining a better environment.


Changing over to an alternative fuel source will cost money, there’s no way around that. The point Dockman keeps trying to make, in his own way, is that you can shift the burden anywhere you want, the government, corporations, communities, etc., but that doesn’t eliminate the burden. The burden is still there; it’s still going to cost money to make such a change. I just think we need to make sure such a change is going to make sense economically. Alternatives may be cheaper right now, but I think the price of crude is currently being kept artificially high.
Reply With Quote
  #119 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
dockman's Avatar
Concerned Citizen

 
Member Since: Jan 2008
Location: Maine
Posts: 31

United_States    
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Advancing this type of technology could eventually reduce public and private sector costs, as well as make more feasible, such projects as an underground energy transmission grid that can deliver energy to all fifty states, plus Canada and Mexico. With such a system in place, energy deregulation could be more successful than it was in California without such infrastructure.
Alright, let's clear these up one at a time. Yes, using lasers to drill could make certain projects cheaper and easier to operate. However, at this point, according to your own posted quote:"Researchers believe (emphasis added) that state-of-the-art lasers have the potential to...
This would suggest that they are not able to be used at this time, which renders your point moot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
I think funding of this type of order could be considered within the normal budget of the executive branch since it could be accomplish by attrition of older vehicles. A certain portion of new vehicles could be required to be alternative fuel capable, thus creating more of a market for those vehicles and incentive for better product development for the private sector.

With any increase in demand for that type of product, the private sector will have more profit motive to provide better products and lower cost to the (private sector) consumer.
You are still dodging the question of funding the mandatory use of alternative fuels. Simply requiring new vehicles to be fueled by alternative methods, as I've pointed out before, does not create the funding that would be needed to provide the fuel. The funding for that would have to come from somewhere, either new revenue (taxes), or spending cuts in another area. You have not, or more to the point, will not, identify how this will be accomplished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
Why is it that there is any consideration for making tax cuts permanent, if we are running massive deficits? Shouldn't a balanced budget or massive surpluses precede permanent tax cuts?
As much as you have demonized my supposed lack of research, I would have thought that you would have spent a modicum of time on economic research before posting such an inane statement. You cannot tax yourself into prosperity. Tax cuts bring revenue surpluses. Don't take my word for it, do some research on the CBO website and compare the numbers before and after Capital Gains Taxes were reduced. I believe the revenue increaase after the tax decrease was around 150%. Now I'm no accountant, but I believe that's actually a good thing. You should probably look up a way to compare deficits and GDP before you start bringing up that subject also. One cannot be used as an example, good or bad, without the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norrin Radd View Post
What question would that be? Is there nothing hemp won't do? That question? Yes, there are many things hemp won't do because brainwashed morons have allowed our government to make it illegal to grow in the US, the only industrialized country in the fucking world without a hemp crop.
As I stated earlier, I personally have no problem with Hemp manufacturing, for industrial or recreational use. However, I don't believe it to be the panacea that you do. We may be "the only industrialized country in the fucking world without a hemp crop", but we are also not hurting for the lack of it. Surprising how the rest of the world is so far ahead of us and yet so very far behind, even with the aid of Hemp. Oh, and that problem you have of forgetting the original question (about how to fund your magical EO), that could be short term memory loss caused by the Super Duper Magical Hemp. Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #120 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jun 2006
Location: US, California - federalist
Posts: 5,349

   
Re: Political Issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunz View Post
OK, explain to me where I can find 10,000,000 cars using hydrogen as thier fuel source, and where the hydrogren is going to come from, plus who and how will the fuel distribution system work?

What is the incentive for people to change? Take me for example, I own an imported medium size 4wd pickup truck, 10 years old. It is what I need to get around where I live. A car simply wont work. So my truck works great right now, why should I dump my current vehicle for something I probably cant afford nor am I sure it could function better than my current vehicle.

This is far more complicated than a simple Executive Order as you said earlier.
Where did you get your arbitrary number for the amount of vehicles? Your argument is becoming even more specious than it was at first. No one is asking you, specifically, to do anything that is not in your budget. You may have missed the point of my argument. It really is as simple as an executive order to the executive branch.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2000 - 2009 U.S. Politics Online