Visit the U.S. Politics Online Discussion Forum Archives!

Sponsored by:

U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum  

Bookmark Us! E-Mail DONATE NOW! Photo Gallery Document Archives Quiz! Register to Vote!!!
Go Back   U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum > Current Events > Political Parties, Campaigns & Elections
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Political Parties, Campaigns & Elections A forum to discuss political parties and elections/campaigns in general.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #271 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Fidei Defensor's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
AMDG

 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: in partibus infidelium
Posts: 3,199

United_States     Vatican

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
Listening to a band for 20 years doesn't necessarily mean to agree with all the views of that band. I really like Cat Stevens. That doesn't mean I agree with all the stuff he says. I really like Morrissey. That doesn't mean I agree with all the stuff he says. I really like Dead Prez. That doesn't mean "I'm down for runnin' up on them crackers in they city hall." Get the point?
If you are an intelligent, educated member of a community that people look to for leadership, and a community leader is saying horrible things to the flock that you don't agree with and you remain silent and continue to remain part of that flock, you are a wimp.
Reply With Quote
  #272 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,369

United_States     Minnesota

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
"previous experiences"...humm, okay, well, you were always free not to engage....sorry to hear it.


I cannot unfortunately guarantee I won’t to your posts, commentary etc. This is after all, the reason why we are here…
Sir,

I know why we are here, I could have done without that particular comment. I don't ask for any guarantees, only the the respect that all of us are entitled to and a level "playing" field.
Reply With Quote
  #273 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
RFK1968's Avatar
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 906

United_States     Missouri

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor View Post
If you are an intelligent, educated member of a community that people look to for leadership, and a community leader is saying horrible things to the flock that you don't agree with and you remain silent and continue to remain part of that flock, you are a wimp.
Remaining silent?

Quote:
Obviously, I disagree with that. Here is what happens when you just cherry-pick statements from a guy who had a 40-year career as a pastor. There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe.
Quote:
"Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."
Maybe the word silent has been given a new definition over the past few days.
__________________
"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.”
- George Will
Reply With Quote
  #274 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Imperator's Avatar
Moderator
Audiatur et altera pars!

 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 21,256

United_States    
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
I really disagre with you that the Jeffrey Wright scandal was a "political issue" and not a "race issue." Wright's controversial statements were about race. Wright's "anti-americanism" was all rooted in a critic of American white supremacy. Now however you feel about his comments, you can not say that Obama could not address racial tension when responding to a controversy ABOUT racial tension.

As you yourself pointed out, the guy has tried and tried NOT to run on race, he was forced to make a statement and he made a profound one. I don't know more you can ask of a candidate. A white candidate wouldnt have to deal with this challenge. There would be others, but there's no way a Black candidate was going to run without race becoming an issue at SOME point. And since it did I respect him for tackling it head on. It's presidential AND shows integrity.

But, again. Is THIS what your vote is going to hinge on Imperator?


Uhmmm I have to disagree, re: anti-Americanism" was all rooted in a critic of American white supremacy, “ I personally don’t see it that way at all. What I saw was upset over his statements re: 911, HIV, drug dealing etc. and since that started, his trip to Libya etc…there doesn’t appear to be any race message in that other than his overall differences with US policy. IF he uses race as HIS motivator, that wasn’t the offending issue. I didn’t see a lot of folks seeing the race angle in that they were mesmerized by the words. The other direct comments barely made it on my radar and where not the leads of the news I watched or read.

My parents and grandparents where members of the Italian American league, when it got started in the 1970’s …so , I am well are of what some grps. feel is a place to go to seek commonality and community.
That’s why you didn’t hear from me on the existence of the church or its charter, ( which I must say now imho, is a little over the top)….anyway, that was not so much the issue for me.

Regards his speech and his integrity. I didn’t get the same message.

No, its not the only thing I am basing my vote on. BUT when dealing with a candidate with a very very slim public record, I have to look at what is out there. And he needs ot be aware he is not protected by years of service he can address as a yardstick of probability as to how he will address or handle issues. So naturally, what does come up, is all the more defining.
Its not a conspiracy…..
__________________

"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."
Reply With Quote
  #275 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Imperator's Avatar
Moderator
Audiatur et altera pars!

 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 21,256

United_States    
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
Remaining silent?





Maybe the word silent has been given a new definition over the past few days.
He was silent before it became an issue. Other than excusing wright from his announcement ceremony, because he had made controversial statements and had to keep him off the stage…that was a year ago….
__________________

"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."
Reply With Quote
  #276 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Fidei Defensor's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
AMDG

 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: in partibus infidelium
Posts: 3,199

United_States     Vatican

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
Remaining silent?

Maybe the word silent has been given a new definition over the past few days.
I am obviously referring to the 20-year period during which Mr. Obama observed Rev. Wright make his incendiary remarks to thousands of people while saying nothing, not during his recent campaign in which he has been forced to respond after those remarks drew widespread scorn.
Reply With Quote
  #277 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
RFK1968's Avatar
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 906

United_States     Missouri

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidei Defensor View Post
I am obviously referring to the 20-year period during which Mr. Obama observed Rev. Wright make his incendiary remarks to thousands of people while saying nothing, not during his recent campaign in which he has been forced to respond after those remarks drew widespread scorn.
So it's the timing of the condemnation that bothers you? What's next? If someone hears controversial remarks from their preacher and waits until the end of church to leave, are you going to call them "a wimp" because they didn't get up immediately?

The fact remains that Obama has unequivocally denounced the statements of Reverend Wright. It is obvious that he does not share these sentiments.

While we're at it, though, here's another angry preacher that made some controversial remarks. I guess we should discredit everyone that channels his message.
__________________
"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.”
- George Will
Reply With Quote
  #278 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Fidei Defensor's Avatar
Secretary of Defense
AMDG

 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: in partibus infidelium
Posts: 3,199

United_States     Vatican

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
So it's the timing of the condemnation that bothers you?
Of course.

Quote:
What's next? If someone hears controversial remarks from their preacher and waits until the end of church to leave, are you going to call them "a wimp" because they didn't get up immediately?
No.

Quote:
The fact remains that Obama has unequivocally denounced the statements of Reverend Wright. It is obvious that he does not share these sentiments.
I do not believe he shares the sentiments. I am disappointed that he did not take a leadership role in the black community to counter-act the negativity coming from the pulpit at the time it was going on. Instead, he sat in church for 20 years, lending his growing prestige to Rev. Wright and letting the hatred bred by Rev. Wright seed itself and fester in others until it blew up into a political scandal during this campaign. Then, he went and made a nice speech about race.
Reply With Quote
  #279 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 7,519

United_States    
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
So it's the timing of the condemnation that bothers you? What's next? If someone hears controversial remarks from their preacher and waits until the end of church to leave, are you going to call them "a wimp" because they didn't get up immediately?

The fact remains that Obama has unequivocally denounced the statements of Reverend Wright. It is obvious that he does not share these sentiments.

While we're at it, though, here's another angry preacher that made some controversial remarks. I guess we should discredit everyone that channels his message.
You are really grasping at straws. Jeremiah Wright is not MLK. Obama's Sainthood is over. He has been exposed for what he really is, just another liberal politician that will say and do ANYTHING to get power. He might even still be elected, but the bloom is off the rose, the chickens have come home to ROOOOST!!!!!!!
__________________
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

Reply With Quote
  #280 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,461

   
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
I do not believe he shares the sentiments. I am disappointed that he did not take a leadership role in the black community to counter-act the negativity coming from the pulpit at the time it was going on.
Now this is just getting to be a little bit ridiculous. George W. Bush converted to a very socially conservative brand of Christianity which tends to believe that homosexuals are immoral, sinful and going to hell. He counted Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ted Haggard and other hypocrtical bigots as spiritual advisors. For goodness sake we all love Billy Graham, but Graham has said some very cruel things about gays and lesbians. When Bush was running for office did you say "its up to YOU Bush to have taken a stand and worked towards getting these people to be less anti-gay"

Here's an even better example. Any southern white elected official, lets say Al Gore or Bill Clinton HAS to have encountered old guard racist southern democrats on their climb to the top. No doubt, they had to form close relationships with them because that's the game of politics. Why didn't Bill Clinton have to "take a stand" against racist white people that we ALL knew he knew and probably interacted with.

The double standard here is huge and really unfair.
__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
Reply With Quote
  #281 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
RFK1968's Avatar
Speaker of the House

 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 906

United_States     Missouri

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
You are really grasping at straws. Jeremiah Wright is not MLK. Obama's Sainthood is over. He has been exposed for what he really is, just another liberal politician that will say and do ANYTHING to get power. He might even still be elected, but the bloom is off the rose, the chickens have come home to ROOOOST!!!!!!!
The point is that Reverends make controversial remarks all the time, and those remarks shouldn't condemn the preacher, or the candidate that sits in his pews. The vast majority of Reverend Wright's sermons did not deal with the .01% that is being broadcast on television. If Wright had said...

Quote:
God didn't call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war. . . . And we are criminals in that war. We've committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I'm going to continue to say it. And we won't stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation. But God has a way of even putting nations in their place. And if you don't stop your reckless course, I'll rise up and break the backbone of your power.
...people, today, would be ripping him apart. MLK Jr. was a great man who also made some controversial remarks from time to time. Fortunately, he is judged by the great remarks he made, not the controversial ones. Reverend Wright has even come out in support of homosexuals...

Quote:
As a leader, Wright defied convention at every turn. In an interview with the Chicago Tribune last year, he recalled a time during the 1970s when the UCC decided to ordain gay and lesbian clergy. At its annual meeting, sensitive to the historic discomfort some blacks have with homosexuality, gay leaders reached out to black pastors.

At that session, Wright heard the testimony of a gay Christian and, he said, he had a conversion experience on gay rights. He started one of the first AIDS ministries on the South Side and a singles group for Trinity gays and lesbians—a subject that still rankles some of the more conservative Trinity members, says Dwight Hopkins, a theology professor at the University of Chicago and a church member. Inside Obama's Trinity United Church
...despite the damage it could have caused his reputation. Reverend Graham should not be condemned for a few anti-Semetic remarks he made. MLK Jr. should not be condemned for a few anti-American remarks he made. Reverend Jeremiah Wright should not be condemned for a few anti-American, anti-Hillary Clinton remarks he made.
__________________
"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.”
- George Will
Reply With Quote
  #282 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 7,519

United_States    
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
The point is that Reverends make controversial remarks all the time, and those remarks shouldn't condemn the preacher, or the candidate that sits in his pews. The vast majority of Reverend Wright's sermons did not deal with the .01% that is being broadcast on television. If Wright had said...



...people, today, would be ripping him apart. MLK Jr. was a great man who also made some controversial remarks from time to time. Fortunately, he is judged by the great remarks he made, not the controversial ones. Reverend Wright has even come out in support of homosexuals...



...despite the damage it could have caused his reputation. Reverend Graham should not be condemned for a few anti-Semetic remarks he made. MLK Jr. should not be condemned for a few anti-American remarks he made. Reverend Jeremiah Wright should not be condemned for a few anti-American, anti-Hillary Clinton remarks he made.
You should stop with the moral equivalency arguments, they are really weak.

The point here is Barack Obama lied about these things at first. It was only after he was caught in his lies, ala Clinton, that he made his "speech on race". Even then, he didn't really condemn the statements or his "crazy uncle" Jeremiah. Barack has shown remarkably poor judgment. Factor in sleazebag Tony Rezko buying land for him, his support of pentagon bomber William Ayers, his membership in a black nationalist racist church for twenty years, and you start to get the measure of a man that is not capable of sound judgment. No bigeee...he'll still get his shot and plenty of people will still vote for him because he is very likable. That is what this process is all about --- VETTING.
__________________
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

Reply With Quote
  #283 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Joint Chiefs of Staff Member

 
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,369

United_States     Minnesota

Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
You should stop with the moral equivalency arguments, they are really weak.

The point here is Barack Obama lied about these things at first. It was only after he was caught in his lies, ala Clinton, that he made his "speech on race". Even then, he didn't really condemn the statements or his "crazy uncle" Jeremiah. Barack has shown remarkably poor judgment. Factor in sleazebag Tony Rezko buying land for him, his support of pentagon bomber William Ayers, his membership in a black nationalist racist church for twenty years, and you start to get the measure of a man that is not capable of sound judgment. No bigeee...he'll still get his shot and plenty of people will still vote for him because he is very likable. That is what this process is all about --- VETTING.
Certainly you can give us all the supporting evidence of your charge that Sen. Obama lied, can you not? I'll wait with bated ... (or is that baited?)breath.
Reply With Quote
  #284 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Secretary of State

 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,461

   
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

I'm sorry but we're in a recession a war and have a healthcare crisis. When it comes down to people pulling the lever in November for Obama and their discomfort with Wright and McCain as Bush v.4 More years...can't imagine people choosing the later. It's March and he's got a great speech and stance on this that will persuade enough people.
__________________
Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
Reply With Quote
  #285 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008
Vice President

 
Member Since: Jan 2004
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 7,519

United_States    
Re: Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor

Obama needs Moderates and Independents to win. Now, his judgment is being examined and questioned. Many are finding him to be lacking. Personally, I think he'll be lucky to even get the nomination at this point. IF Hillary beats him badly in PA he's in for the fight of his life.
__________________
I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2000 - 2009 U.S. Politics Online