Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor - Page 5 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

Imperator · #61 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

The only major difference between the McCain and Obama situations is the one that the religious zealot chooses to make distinct. It is the religious zealot who claims to decide the degree to which an individual's associations should be scrutinized. Intelligent people understand that individuals should be judged based on their own merit, on their own words, and on their own actions. When we start viewing our candidates through the lense of religious ideology, we won't be the same country.

I have googled to death.....it appears the endorsement by hagee of McCain is, what it appears to be, an endorsement as McCain attempts to tack for votes...EVERY pol. Parachutes into churchs, businesses, schools, day care centers, you name it in an attempt to garner votes. Show the colors etc. Its what they do. I don’t necessarily hold it against a candidate to pander for votes, tack into here to fore positions not concretely held, i.e. flipping some past votes or positions so as to make themselves more palatable to whom they are attempting to sway. It’s the game.

There was no parachuting in, by Obama. This was no tack for votes in his district as his district will not be electing him for local office and if he had too, he could go without those 10,000 votes. This was 20 years, and a close relationship. It is impossible for me to believe after all the meetings, street walks in whch he meets constituents that are members of this church, who listen to these sermons, building their infrastructure , dinners, socializing, after 20 years of knowing a man, you have never heard these views.
Its simply defies imagination.

I have had friends far less than 20 years and seeing each other even just 2-3 times a month I know what this persons views are, what they hold as values, and they don’t preach to me nor have we ever worked in a racially charged atmosphere nor attempted to build a program or process regards neighborhood outreach etc.

Obama knew, he knew on some level or many levels what wright felt and what he has said. I’d say after several years of friendship with someone that if you didn’t know, then what kind of close relationship could you have had? And clearly there is no question they had one.

Obama probably made decision at some point that this would never be an issue, and his meteoric rise is now working against him. He is being vetted before our very eyes. Every politician who runs for office has been or will be. Hillarys strength in some eyes is; “Its all old news”. She has a built in inoculation as this is so, peoples’ attention spans are short and some may say; yea, been there heard that. She has carefully maneuvered herself as a "moderate" in the senate to assist in shucking some of her past.

Obama as he is so new, irrevocably, will be vetted in situ. These things are going to come up. If he had had another 4- 5 years in congress and had distanced himself from wright, now, this would probably not be an issue. He distancing himself because he has no choice and right up until his first disavowal les than 2 months ago, and if you watched him, and read, I mean read his statement and transcript of such, he didn’t exactly sound nor look very convincing.

Oh, and are you aware that wrights sermons some of which, holding these views has been for many years available on-line through his site for purchase?

This Obamas Gary Hart moment. I thought Hart by and large got a raw deal, I don't want Obama to get a raw deal. But this isn't some one off cruise or dinner party.

mudwhistle · #62 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Soul

Obama pastor does not see Africa as a bunch of smaller nations and states but as a whole much the same as Russia saw the USSR.

Sorry I didnt state this earlier, I thought you Obamabots would understand where your boy and his spiritual advisor were coming from. Africa to them is the motherland where there is no nations, only a land where Africans are seen as one and the same all from the same existent. Not counting South Africa where there are plenty of white people. Before Africa is whole again, the white people must be eradicated from it shores.

So Obama must be just as racist as his spiritual leader.

This is now why I go to a mixed church when I go. I got tried of hearing how bad the white man is, how the white man has his foot on the necks of black people, how black people cont to be held back by the white man. If you hear the same shit over and over you start to believe it. The majority of the black churches I have attended preach the same crap. Then blame the white man as being the only racists. Black people are and can be just or more so as racist as any white person I have known.

Correct. Because people are just people. Skin color shouldn't be an excuse or give you a pass where racism is concerned.

Imperator · #63 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

The only major difference between the McCain and Obama situations is the one that the religious zealot chooses to make distinct. It is the religious zealot who claims to decide the degree to which an individual's associations should be scrutinized. Intelligent people understand that individuals should be judged based on their own merit, on their own words, and on their own actions. When we start viewing our candidates through the lense of religious ideology, we won't be the same country.

Oh and as far as basing ones evaluation solely upon the individuals own personal merit is a tad off. One of the sayings that exists and to me at least is full of hooey is;" first impressions are lasting impression”. How many of us have had, or made an impression that later was turned on its head? A job interview, you screw up, you are a little nervous, you spill something on your tie before going in, etc. does that mean you are a nervous nelly? or that you are a slob? Thats why multiple interviews or giving someone a second look always was and should be prudent. Basing ones judgment of a person solely on one meeting, or one incident is not fair.

And then theres the old saw- judge a king not soley on his own, but by those he surrounds himself with.

If he has advisors who are well spoken, intelligent, fair minded etc. I would say that that is one of 2 things at work here- he gains allegiance from such because they are like minded as they see this man on an everyday basis and are willing to assoc. themselves with him, or see in him the capacity for such, OR they are chosen to fill out weakness’ the man has and seeks expertise in areas which he recognizes as his own weakness’s. In either case I’d say that a viable template to base judgments upon, when judging someone. And no, its not always infallible.

mudwhistle · #64 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

ahh, such liberal tolerance from Obama's "spiritual advisor".....
And God Said to Moses: I Hate Those Honkey-Ass Crackers
A Sermon by Jeremiah Wright

EDITOR'S NOTE: This sermon has been edited for language. This is a political blog, not some church Democrats go to.

When Moses finally escaped the Egyptians, he turned to God and asked, "There could surely be no one as bad at those people?" God said to Moses, "Yes there are. Beware the honkeys. Beware the crackers. Especially beware the Jews. I hate all those people. Frankly, if you blow up their buildings, that's okay with me."
"That's right: NASA is going to send the black man to Venus where it is inhospitable to life and we will all die."

That wisdom speaks even more to us today as we are beset by honkeys. America is a country founded by crackers and run by Jews that exists for no other reason than to kill black people. They invented AIDS to kill us. They made crack to drug us. They use hidden ninjas to stage black on black violence. Hillary does not understand this. In fact, she's busy in her hollowed out volcano working on AIDS version two. That's why they are scared of a black man being president, because he will cut the millions of dollars that go to black genocide and instead invest that money where God says it should be: In killing honkey!

Yes, they will stop at nothing to keep the black man out of power and from his rightful job of cracker-cide. That's why they spread the rumors about Obama. They say he's inexperienced and he'll be a disaster. That's not an argument against him, because America deserves a disaster! So they try to say he's secretly a Muslim. Again, that's not an argument against him, because maybe he should be a Muslim. They're doing God's work: Blowing up the honkeys and the Jews. So only reason that all those crackers oppose Obama is that they know he's going to succeed at what he promises: Killing the honkeys!

Now some tell me that we shouldn't be for killing the honkeys. We should just turn the other cheek. Who says this? That cracker Jesus! Well, answer me this: Has Jesus ever been called a [n-word]? Did anyone invent AIDS to kill Jesus? Well, maybe Jesus should not be lecturing the black man on what he should and should not be doing. As we speak, the government is working on plans to send all black people to Venus! That's right: NASA is going to send us to Venus where it is inhospitable to life and we will all die. So what does Jesus have to say about that? Nothing! God bless Jesus? No. God [expletive] Jesus! To hell with him! Throw his cracker ass out of here!

Remember the story of Samson. When the Jews tricked him out of his strength, they chained him up so all the crackers could come and laugh at him. So, he turned to God with one last prayer and screamed, "I hate the honkeys!" which granted him a final burst of strength to kill them all. Though the crackers may now be keeping us down, we can have one final prayer to kill them all. That prayer is Obama... though his campaign would like me to remind you that I in know way speak for him. Amen.

Jeremiah Wright was until recently the Pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ, and has been the spiritual adviser of the Obamas for twenty years (though he would like to distance himself from some of the anti-American statements of Michelle Obama). Now retired, he hopes to finally read that Bible he's been hearing so much about. He hates the honkeys.

Do you have a link for this?

RFK1968 · #65 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

It seems there isn't going to be a lot of common ground here. I don't think people should be judged by the sermons of their pastor, others do. I don't think religious affiliations should condemn a man seeking public office, others do. Fair enough.

On a side note, I'm not sure this will be nearly as devestating as many people are assuming it will be. Unlike Gary Hart, Obama, himself, did nothing unethical. The people that feel there exists a direct connection between the sermons of Reverand Wright and the sentiment of Senator Barack Obama wouldn't have voted for Obama in the first place. Just examine the list of the people who have spoken on this thread. Almost all of them have been championing even the slightest slip-ups from the Obama campaign for weeks now (Mudwhistle, Alex, Imperator, Lost Soul, hairballxavier). There's nothing wrong with disliking Obama. But I think it's probably naive to suggest that the actions of his pastor are going to destroy his chances at the White House. This is a story-of-the-week that will be completely blown over by the Pennsylvania Primary (which Hillary would probably have won anyway).

mudwhistle · #66 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

It seems there isn't going to be a lot of common ground here. I don't think people should be judged by the sermons of their pastor, others do. I don't think religious affiliations should condemn a man seeking public office, others do. Fair enough.

On a side note, I'm not sure this will be nearly as devestating as many people are assuming it will be. Unlike Gary Hart, Obama, himself, did nothing unethical. The people that feel there exists a direct connection between the sermons of Reverand Wright and the sentiment of Senator Barack Obama wouldn't have voted for Obama in the first place. Just examine the list of the people who have spoken on this thread. Almost all of them have been championing even the slightest slip-ups from the Obama campaign for weeks now (Mudwhistle, Alex, Imperator, Lost Soul, hairballxavier). There's nothing wrong with disliking Obama. But I think it's probably naive to suggest that the actions of his pastor are going to destroy his chances at the White House. This is a story-of-the-week that will be completely blown over by the Pennsylvania Primary (which Hillary would probably have won anyway).

Denial in not just a river in Egypt.

What Obama has been running on during his campaign is his ability to bring us together, and we instead find out that he despises those who most likely would have put him in the position to do so meaning Whites.

You can hate whomever you choose, but don't try to tell us you don't. Obama couldn't exist in a racist church like Trinity United unless he is racist himself. The facts are out there for all to see. He knew there was a chance this would be made public and he decided to run anyway because he felt that the media would cover for him and there would be enough Kool-aid drinkers out there willing to swallow anything for the cause.

Oreo · #67 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

It seems there isn't going to be a lot of common ground here. I don't think people should be judged by the sermons of their pastor, others do. I don't think religious affiliations should condemn a man seeking public office, others do. Fair enough.

On a side note, I'm not sure this will be nearly as devestating as many people are assuming it will be. Unlike Gary Hart, Obama, himself, did nothing unethical. The people that feel there exists a direct connection between the sermons of Reverand Wright and the sentiment of Senator Barack Obama wouldn't have voted for Obama in the first place. Just examine the list of the people who have spoken on this thread. Almost all of them have been championing even the slightest slip-ups from the Obama campaign for weeks now (Mudwhistle, Alex, Imperator, Lost Soul, hairballxavier). There's nothing wrong with disliking Obama. But I think it's probably naive to suggest that the actions of his pastor are going to destroy his chances at the White House. This is a story-of-the-week that will be completely blown over by the Pennsylvania Primary (which Hillary would probably have won anyway).

I disagree--this is a disaster. And I am speaking as a former supporter & doner to the Obama campaign

We all have freedom of choice to the church we belong too. I have attended several in my life-time. In no instance would a pastor get away with the hate & distain for America that I have witnessed in these videos from the churches I have attended. If any pastor would have stood behind the pulpit & stated G-Damm America, the entire congregation would have walked out.

Presently, Obama's stated defense is he didn't know about these statements. It's obvious from the tapes that his pastor wouldn't be able to keep his racist, America hating comments to himself for 20 minutes, let alone 20 years. Obama admits that he knew of some? Yet, he still attended & was a member of this church. On Obamas part, this is unbelievable ignorance, & exhibits extremely poor judgement.

The only way I see Obama saving himself, is to denounce his entire church, denounce the radicals within the black party, including Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, & many others whom are racist. Then appologize to the entire nation, with a very detailed explanation as to why he was a member of this church in the first place.

Too just say he didn't know that the church organization he has belonged to for the last 20 years was so anti-America & racist is completely unbelievable.

RFK1968 · #68 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

Denial in not just a river in Egypt.

What Obama has been running on during his campaign is his ability to bring us together, and we instead find out that he dispises those who most likely would have put him in the position to do so meaning Whites.

You can hate whomever you choose, but don't try to tell us you don't. Obama couldn't exist in a racist church like Trinity United unless he is racist himself. The facts are out there for all to see. He knew there was a chance this would be made public and he decided to run anyway because he felt that the media would cover for him and there would be enough Kool-aid drinkers out there willing to swallow anything for the cause.

So you truly believe that Obama is a racist? Despite the fact that anyone who has ever known him would say otherwise? Despite the fact that a vast majority of his Congressional support would say otherwise? Despite the fact that even his strongest opponents would say otherwise?

This strikes me as more of a situation of people, such as yourself (and don't take that the wrong way, I certainly have the utmost respect for you personally), fearing that their most ardent efforts to defame Obama are constantly falling short. Look, eventually something legitimate will come out that will be devastating for Obama. Hopefully, for your sake, it will happen before he has the opportunity to get elected. But the idiotic comments of his pastor, the 20-year-old comments of his wife, the unethical acts of someone that raised money for him (and the sitting President, mind you), his dress in an African country, etc. just aren't going to cut it. I can't blame you for trying.

Imperator · #69 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

It seems there isn't going to be a lot of common ground here. I don't think people should be judged by the sermons of their pastor, others do. I don't think religious affiliations should condemn a man seeking public office, others do. Fair enough.

On a side note, I'm not sure this will be nearly as devestating as many people are assuming it will be. Unlike Gary Hart, Obama, himself, did nothing unethical. The people that feel there exists a direct connection between the sermons of Reverand Wright and the sentiment of Senator Barack Obama wouldn't have voted for Obama in the first place. Just examine the list of the people who have spoken on this thread. Almost all of them have been championing even the slightest slip-ups from the Obama campaign for weeks now (Mudwhistle, Alex, Imperator, Lost Soul, hairballxavier). There's nothing wrong with disliking Obama. But I think it's probably naive to suggest that the actions of his pastor are going to destroy his chances at the White House. This is a story-of-the-week that will be completely blown over by the Pennsylvania Primary (which Hillary would probably have won anyway).

I am NOT debating his religious affiliation, did you read my posts? To make this all about religion is a tortured argument. This pastor goes WAY beyond religion and I think that plainly evident. Obams sppt. of this man, for 20 years is what the question is. I don't see it as religious at all. I see it as what a man would for a very long time in his 46 year life, sppt’s.

His judgment is the question here. He knew, he dis-invited the pastor at his invocation for his kick election off because he knew he was polarizing, how did he know that? What polarization are we talking about exactly? You see?

and rfk, could address for a minute the media double standard, I seriously would like to hear were you stand on this.

as far as slip ups you lost me here, because I never bought the hype, if I point out a slip up, this means what exactly? Does this take away form the argument? I don't see how. It is either a fact or it isn’t.

That comes dangerously close to scrutinizing the messenger not message, we al know how detrimental that is.

re: connection between wright and obama never voting for him, well this is a national stage, he isn’t appealing to select grp of folks in a sate or district.

chassisman · #70 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

I saw BO on TV today talking about unity. If he's all about unity, why does he go to a seperatist/segragationist church? I'd like to see what would happen if about a hundred white devils showed up for next Sundays service. Would they be welcomed with open arms? Would the members be encouraging the visitors to become members and worship with them every Sunday? This is the reception I usually get when visiting another church.
From the videos I've seen, OB's chuch is not a house of God, but a house of racism and America loathing. Who would stick around on a Sunday to hear that crap when the day is meant for Christians to worship a God that tells us to love our neighbors and forgive those who trespass against us? I don't know how OB's reverend can call himself a Christian, his message is not one of love, it is filled with hate and promotes self imposed segregation.

RFK1968 · #71 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

and rfk, could address for a minute the media double standard, I seriously would like to hear were you stand on this.

You'll have to clarify exactly what you mean by media double-standard. I'm not particularly worried about the media. Sometimes they seem to be one-sided in favor of Obama, somtimes they seem to be one-sided in favor of Clinton, sometimes they seem to be one-sided in favor of McCain. I don't really view the media as an agenda-setting-liberal-geyser. I view them as a private organization that wants to get ratings.

I'd be happy to give my opinion of the double-standard you're referring to, I'm just not exactly sure which one it is.

hairballxavier · #72 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

A Report Prepared at the Request of the
United States House of Representatives
Committee on Appropriations
by the
United States Information Agency
June 1992

Soviet Active Measures in the
"Post-Cold War" Era
1988-1991

Crude, Anti-American
Disinformation

Quote:

Originally Posted by The USIA Report to Congress

Until mid-1987, by which time the conciliatory themes of "new political thinking" had become ascendant in Soviet policy, Soviet disinformation under Gorbachev had proceeded in its usual confrontational mode, seemingly guided more by the policy of "uskorenie," or acceleration, than by that of glasnost. In fact, in late 1986 and early 1987, as the Soviets were making "glasnost" and "perestroika" key principles of their policy at home and abroad, they were simultaneously beginning or significantly accelerating a number of crude, anti-American disinformation campaigns. These included false claims that the United States had invented the AIDS virus in a military laboratory; that it had killed the 918 people who died in the mass suicide at Jonestown, Guyana in 1978; and that Americans were adopting Latin American children in order to butcher them and use their body parts in organ transplants, the so-called "baby parts" story. (For a detailed account of these campaigns, see the 1988 USIA report to Congress, Soviet Active Measures in the Era of Glasnost.) As a measure of the times, such outrageous claims were printed through mid-1987 in publications such as Moscow News, which was soon to gain a deserved reputation as one of the flagships of glasnost.

The U.S. government had, of course, made its displeasure about these disinformation charges made known to the Soviets both publicly and privately. In response, in August 1987, Soviet officials assured the U.S. government that Soviet media would stop spreading the AIDS disinformation claim. Despite some exceptions, AIDS disinformation charges diminished drastically not only in the Soviet press but also worldwide.

And 20 years later this crude, defamatory anti-American disinformation that the government invented HIV is still being preached to blacks in Obama's "church".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru1fpw69Fs8

And the congregation cheers Reverend Wright.

Just saying "Gee, I might not agree with everything he says" is not good enough. Obama's church has actively perpetuated this ridiculous, crude, defamatory anti-USA propaganda that the government has been trying to counter for 2 fucking decades.

And Obama has not publically condemned this organization nor has he rescinded his membership in the organization. In fact, he embraces it and makes excuses.

Lil · #73 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

TPMCafe | Talking Points Memo | The Irrelevance of Obama's Minister

This is an interesting op-ed ... discussion of candidiates and their ministers, priests, rabbis, if you care to read. It might put some of you at ease...but if one refuses to have even the teansiest open mind, it probably won't.

chassisman · #74 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

The message OB's church sends is that it is A-OK to be a seething racist as long as you're black, then you have earned the right. (even if the only cotton you have ever picked came out of a bottle of asprin)

mudwhistle · #75 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

So you truly believe that Obama is a racist? Despite the fact that anyone who has ever known him would say otherwise? Despite the fact that a vast majority of his Congressional support would say otherwise? Despite the fact that even his strongest opponents would say otherwise?

This strikes me as more of a situation of people, such as yourself (and don't take that the wrong way, I certainly have the utmost respect for you personally), fearing that their most ardent efforts to defame Obama are constantly falling short. Look, eventually something legitimate will come out that will be devastating for Obama. Hopefully, for your sake, it will happen before he has the opportunity to get elected. But the idiotic comments of his pastor, the 20-year-old comments of his wife, the unethical acts of someone that raised money for him (and the sitting President, mind you), his dress in an African country, etc. just aren't going to cut it. I can't blame you for trying.

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