Obama's Incredible Denial Concerning His Pastor - Page 7 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

mudwhistle · #91 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil

My goodness Frank, we have a President who freely admitted that he took his advice from a higher power. He admitted he made his decisions on what Jesus would do. Did you read the article I posted written by a Jew? Read it.

I don't get what your so afraid of. I've never heard Barack Obama say anything like his preacher said. What is it? Do you think he's going to hand over the country to the Black Panthers? What has he done to warrant this kind of hatred?

We would need to put a mike on the guy 24/7 to catch him at it.

The Black Panthers are history. I don't know what you would call the people he's friends with. Let's just call them a bunch of bigots who want to kill white folks for fun.

mudwhistle · #92 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooyarn

Then don't vote for him, simple as that. But to keep beating this drum is not going to convince anyone to change their mind one way or another.

He's dropped 8 points since this came out. I think the longer it's out there the more people are going to be able to judge for themselves and realize that a guy that surrounds himself with racists is the last person we need in the Oval Office.

pramjockey · #93 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakkasan

general concensus that i heard on Your radio network air america.....was pretty much saying it had to be a republican. and in general with your wack a mole approach to this to ignore obama and go after mccain still shows intent to deflect towards another party. and not even address that what mccains dude said still doesnt come close to the shit spewed by the racist who is his "uncle"

to your number two bullet comment.......

you attack a republican instead of fessing up to the fact that this obama shit is bad in fact you didnt even address the topic of this thread you just posted another link to a mccain bash .........but ya you are not a liberal (eventhough you claim to be a liberal non wussy in your title) ya you dont root for the democrats you are an independant, ya those are not your peeps

and as you type up your arrogant and condescending reply....food for thought i am 95% sure i am going to vote for Obama if he is the dems choice...I dont like mccain....type away ..........

My network?

I listen to XM 47 and 42. That's about all the broadcasting I can handle.

It's not a McCain bash; all 3 candidates nauseate me. What's worse, though, is the double-standard. It's perfectly fine for McCain to actively seek out religious loonies, but God forbid that Obama attended one's church.

Oreo · #94 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFK1968

I really hope I never end up subscribing to this kind of warped ideology. People claim that they want to uphold the Constitution...then disregard the blatant references to a separation of church of state (whether it be from letters by Thomas Jefferson, or by the 1st Amendment). People claim the sins of the father should not be visited upon the son...then feel politicians should be chastised for affiliations that are, inevitably, weaker than the bonds of father and son. People claim that religious affiliations should play a big part in deciding whether or not to vote for a candidate...but believe the government should play no part in the decisions of the church.

The only major difference between the McCain and Obama situations is the one that the religious zealot chooses to make distinct. It is the religious zealot who claims to decide the degree to which an individual's associations should be scrutinized. Intelligent people understand that individuals should be judged based on their own merit, on their own words, and on their own actions. When we start viewing our candidates through the lense of religious ideology, we won't be the same country.

When one sleeps with dogs, they wake up with flees. It's the same thing as any person hanging out with a street gang. It's the "willing" association.

Obama made a free-will choice to go to this church. And what's worse, he hung around it for 20 years. He never made that break, until the news media caught on. Now it's rejection, rejection, denouncement, & I didn't know, etc.

The poor judgement of Barack Obama has come home to roost.

Sheriff · #95 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Actions speak louder than talk!

Let us a apply this to the current situation that has drawn a lot of confusion where Mr. Rev. Jeremiah Wright odd statements or Former president Bill Clinton sex scandals to be considered as a guilt! both Mr. Obama & Mrs. Clinton to be a counted for. If we are looking for fairness, we really need to answer these two questions correctly.

Question One:

Who is running for president?

The answer will be Mr. Obama & Mrs. Clinton. So conventional wisdom says we have to see who is Mr. Obama? and what he stands for as well as Mrs. Clinton.

Question Two:

Who is mostly likely have the most influence on you: Your Parents whom you grow up with or your Pastor at church whom you see once week?

Whatever, your answer will be will not guarantee the outcome of the two scenarios: if:

• You will carry your parents legacy and live up to their expectation for you, or

• Follow your pastor on his believes and promote his ideas and opinions

The reason why the outcome will be different in both scenarios, because there are attributes that also merge to define our identity and shades who are today. Some of those are inborn tarits such as wisdom and some we acquire such as character, which we develop and build based on education, values, habits, etc . upon which people should be judged. Also actions and choices people made in their life and what they have accomplished are mirrors that reflect who they are and what they stand for.

Now. To judge or relate Mr. Obama to his Pastor is absolutely nonsense and a complete denial to facts that we all know from our own experience is far from right. It is a rule of life you will be judged by your on merits and not someone else EVER.

Sheriff · #96 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

Obama had 20 years to denounce the teachings of Rev. Wright and chose not to.

Before making this forum more "muddy," give ear to one reasonable voice:

Quote:

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.
Frank Schaeffer: Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero - Politics on The Huffington Post

Finally, we can silence the hypocrites, and end the witch hunt.

Our nation as generous as it is, is also a very self-serving, manipulating nation. We don't do too much without an ulterior motive. Then we attempt to convince the masses that our motives are true and for the good of the people.

We NEED the Rev. Wrights, and men like this father to stand on the wall, and point out the injustices. It may not be HOW the people WANT to hear it...But it is the truth none the less. Before Senator Obama, the Rev. Wrights and your father were some of the only voices we have had in the wilderness, decrying injustices inflicted on those who've lost their voice or the vision to see where we really are.

I do believe, that Senator Obama is handling this correctly, and this will finally rub off an old scab that has been irritating our nation for years. It's been picked at enough. Now is time for open dialogue and healing. I firmly believe Senator Obama is the man to carry that message of reconcilliation and bridge building.

daisym · #97 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Soul

Obama pastor does not see Africa as a bunch of smaller nations and states but as a whole much the same as Russia saw the USSR.

Sorry I didnt state this earlier, I thought you Obamabots would understand where your boy and his spiritual advisor were coming from. Africa to them is the motherland where there is no nations, only a land where Africans are seen as one and the same all from the same existent. Not counting South Africa where there are plenty of white people. Before Africa is whole again, the white people must be eradicated from it shores.

So Obama must be just as racist as his spiritual leader.

This is now why I go to a mixed church when I go. I got tried of hearing how bad the white man is, how the white man has his foot on the necks of black people, how black people cont to be held back by the white man. If you hear the same shit over and over you start to believe it. The majority of the black churches I have attended preach the same crap. Then blame the white man as being the only racists. Black people are and can be just or more so as racist as any white person I have known.

I am no Obamabot - to be perfectly honest I'm not too sure that he would be my preferred canditate.

I just take an outsider's POV.

So you don't like Blacks whining about racism in the US? so what are YOU doing to make sure that blacks are not disadvantaged?

I've seen enough of US history to know that even today the scars of institutionalised racism continue to disadvantage black US citizens.

I've also seen enough about the US to know that what the Rev may well be criticising is reasonable.

I often ask myself how the richest country in the world has a lower life expectancy than other western nations, how it has a higher infant mortality rate, how come, despite the best quality hospitals and top medical researchers, so many US citizens can't afford decent health care, why your average educational standards are below those of other OECD nations, how it has the highest per capita rate of imprisonment in the world, how come it is second only to China in terms in the number of executions, how the justice system appears to make so many mistakes, (I've seen/heard two programmes in the last couple of says where survivors of your justice system's injustice were sentenced to long perids of solitary confinement, and then found innocent,or sentenced to death, and then found innocent), how 8 people under 18 get killed by guns every day in the US (ie in a year thats more than the total number killed on 911), and people just gloss over this as if its not an issue, how come the richest nation has the greatest income differential of any OECD nation (something the rest of us associate with the third world) .... and thats BEFORE we start looking at your relationships with other nations ...

Seems to me if the Rev was saying God Damn America twasn't a bad thing - because it might make people sit up and take notice and ask what the fuck is wrong with "the greatest nation on earth."

daisym · #98 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

I listened to him, before all of this racial mess started and I didn't like what he had to say back then. He hasn't changed his sermons. He's still saying pretty much the same thing.

Obama just preaches a cleaner toned down version of Rev. Wright's sermons. I could tell Obama hated America. I've been trying to explain this to anyone who would listen to me on this site for quite a while. Nobody really loves this country when every time you open your mouth you start talking about the bad in the country. I've heard him. Some of his statements sound like they come right out of Rev. Wright's sermons. Some of his statements sound like they were inspired by Rev. Wright.

You could say I'm an exact polar opposite to Obama. He sees what's wrong with America where I see what's right about it and I hope it can become better. But as long as we keep electing officials like the ones the Democrats keep pushing on us we'll never get any better. They always seem to have character flaws that never come out because the media glosses their flaws over.

Too many of their supporters think that the exposure is unfair and is all politically motivated thus totally false. They feel that it can't all be true. So they defend him and want to forget about what has been discovered. So the result is a flawed candidate that eventually ends up torpedoing Democrats chances of taking back the White House. Every candidate regardless of party should be vetted and if this kind of thing shows up the public needs to know before he becomes a problem once he gets in office. We don't need a President that has a chip on his shoulder. We need a President that has all Americans best interests in mind not just a favored few.

If I told my children they had to learn to take responsibility for their actions, that they should learn to share, and that I would punish them if they didn't improve their manners ... do you thank that would be a sign that I hate them?

seems to me as if you made up your mind about many things - and are unable to consider any criticism of your country - as if you feel that criticism = hate.

Sheriff · #99 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle
I listened to him, before all of this racial mess started and I didn't like what he had to say back then. He hasn't changed his sermons. He's still saying pretty much the same thing.

Obama just preaches a cleaner toned down version of Rev. Wright's sermons. I could tell Obama hated America. I've been trying to explain this to anyone who would listen to me on this site for quite a while. Nobody really loves this country when every time you open your mouth you start talking about the bad in the country. I've heard him. Some of his statements sound like they come right out of Rev. Wright's sermons. Some of his statements sound like they were inspired by Rev. Wright.

Ask yourself, Muddy, did the evangelical support derail Bush's campaign and prevent him from being elected twice?

Quote:

God Gave U.S. 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says
By John F. Harris, Washington Post Staff Writer

Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have turned God's anger against America.

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted by Robertson.

"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population."

Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."

Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way â·" all of them who have tried to secularize America â·" I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"

People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced the comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call for national unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president, called the remarks "absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."

Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to Bush last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential nomination. A White House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "The president does not share those views."

Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making a theological statement, not a legal statement."

"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist," he said. But he said America's "secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture . .

smythe5 · #**100** (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Who cares what Baracks' preacher said? Who cares if Barack is Muslim? Anyone with a sense of awarness toward politics has grimaced and endured one of the most errant, deceitful, arrogant, cheap, smearful, ugly, hipocritical, and downright uninspiring campaigns in this countries troubled history. That of course belonging to Hillary Rodham Clinton. Barack is not perfect, no politician is, but he is so much more level-headed and intellignet than the two monsters that don't stand a chance against him.

mudwhistle · #**101** (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff

Ask yourself, Muddy, did the evangelical support derail Bush's campaign and prevent him from being elected twice?

You can't seem to recognize the difference between saying what is happening in the world today and using hate speech to gin up hatred between the races. Pointing out the acts of certain special interest groups against Christians is not the same thing as the racist hate speech Rev. Wright uses in almost every sermon.

Trinity United Church of Christ

I tuned in to his sight and caught a video feed from a sermon he gave in February of this year. I randomly picked it out of several they had available for direct video feed. The prevailing topic included African-Pride, African-Culture, Slavery (Slavery was mentioned several times), and Briar Rabbit.

Rev. Wright seems to be obsessed with African slavery as it was over 150 years ago and life for Africans in the late 1800s. He forgets that things have changed since then......that nobody alive today was a slave. Dredging up bad feelings that are long gone seems to be his specialty. I can't see anything good coming out of his sermons.

Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby
Tar baby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Uncle Remus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

mudwhistle · #**102** (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

All of the people that are trying to use the age old tactic of projection by accusing McCain of doing the same thing are wrong because of one simple fact:

John McCain never attended services in the church of the Rev. they are using to attack him with. He merely accepted his endorsement. How can McCain know the type of sermons that he gives if he isn't a member or has never listened to his services? And even if he attended one service you have to attend one to find out the content of the services to be able to make a decision on whether or not you want to continue attending subsequent services or to become a member.

Obama has had 20 years to walk out and he chose not to. Now we find out that there is a reliable witness that claims Obama was in attendance during one of these despicable sermons which Obama claims he never attended.

Pogo · #**103** (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by pramjockey

So, once again, what country is that?

Basic geography: Africa is a continent. It's a remarkably large continent, made up of many different nations. It is remarkably diverse.

Still, one is left to wonder what is meant by being true to Africa.

Pogo · #**104** (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudwhistle

Obama has had 20 years to walk out and he chose not to. Now we find out that there is a reliable witness that claims Obama was in attendance during one of these despicable sermons which Obama claims he never attended.

They're not despicable, they're angry. If you were black, you might be angry, too.

That said, non-blacks are left to wonder if it makes sense to support a candidate whose views may be steeped in anger and black nationalism.

Johnny K · #**105** (**permalink**) 03-17-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogo

They're not despicable, they're angry. If you were black, you might be angry, too.

I agree. Despite all of the advances made, economic and political suppression of minorities continues to this day. Saying that "things are better now than they were before" is a far cry from saying that the problems of the issue have been solved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pogo

That said, non-blacks are left to wonder if it makes sense to support a candidate whose views may be steeped in anger and black nationalism.

Not to be argumentive, but as someone who has paid close attention to much of what Sen. Obama actually has said, and will not be duped into buying into the guilt by association nonsense, I would be very interested in seeing any reliable source to the words of Sen. Obama saying the he shares the angry sentiments of Wright. I have, and can again, if needed, source the words of Sen. Obama saying exactly the opposite. I put this not only as a challenge to you, Pogo, but more widely to all of those that are engaging is this not-so-covert smear campaign.

Thanks,

Johnny K