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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Bill Cosby made much more salient points about how to overcome the problems facing the “black community” than anything in Obama’s speech.
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
It's history..It was real, and it happened. It's relevant to the race relations because it was the tumultous starting point of black-white relations in the country.

I thought Obama brought it up in his speech to demonstrate how far our society has moved beyond that era.

Why do you think he mentioned it?
Yes - a stain on the constitution. Then let's start the discussion!
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

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Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
Tim seriously slavery was mentioned for ONE reason only. It's an example of America's ability to recognize something is wrong about itself and move forward. What is harmful about using slavery to teach that lesson? Why does it upset you so much?
Indeed? Then by all means - let's have a natiowide discussion. How shall we fit Wright's "sermons" into that discussion, since they are precipitating it?
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
skeptic1 skeptic1 is offline
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

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Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Yes, exactly.

Obama is a fabulously wealthy and priveleged man. Just about all presidential candidates are. He is not different in those respects at all.

Until this point he was not speaking the language of victimization or separatism. That was a major part of his enormous appeal. That is being lost. A nationwide screaming debate about slavery will not only end that aspect of Obama's campaign, it will result in a fight that will not stop.
JM&J:

According to Slate

Link !!!!! Why Obama's bad investments would make him a better president. - By Henry Blodget - Slate Magazine

Obama's most recent public financial statements, he and his wife, Michelle, were worth between $500,000 and $2 million at the end of 2005 (excluding whatever equity they have in their $1.65 million Chicago house). The bulk of this wealth came from $1.2 million in royalties Obama received that year for The Audacity of Hope and a previously published book (part of a $1.9 million, three-book deal). The $1.2 million figure is presumably pretax, which means that, after paying the IRS, Obama probably kept about $600,000.

All the other canidates are IMO super wealthy

I question the accuracy of your analysis. Can you dispute the nimbers I provided via Slate ?
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
CorpMediaSux CorpMediaSux is offline
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

We don't need to have a nationwide discussion on slavery. No one is suggesting that we do.
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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
CorpMediaSux CorpMediaSux is offline
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Quote:
Bill Cosby made much more salient points about how to overcome the problems facing the “black community” than anything in Obama’s speech.
Can you give an example?
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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
Can you give an example?
I was thinking of The Pound Cake Speech. Here are some excerpts:

Quote:
Ladies and gentlemen, these people set, they opened the doors, they gave us the right, and today, ladies and gentlemen, in our cities and public schools we have fifty percent drop out. In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they’re pregnant without a husband. (clapping) No longer is a boy considered an embarrassment if he tries to run away from being the father of the unmarried child (clapping)

Are you not paying attention, people with their hat on backwards, pants down around the crack. Isn’t that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up (laughter and clapping ). Isn’t it a sign of something when she’s got her dress all the way up to the crack…and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from? (laughter). We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans, they don’t know a damned thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail. (When we give these kinds names to our children, we give them the strength and inspiration in the meaning of those names. What’s the point of giving them strong names if there is not parenting and values backing it up).

Brown Versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem. We’ve got to take the neighborhood back (clapping). We’ve got to go in there. Just forget telling your child to go to the Peace Corps. It’s right around the corner. (laughter) It’s standing on the corner. It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk. “Why you ain’t where you is go, ra,” I don’t know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk (laughter). Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t land a plane with “why you ain’t…” You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. There is no Bible that has that kind of language. Where did these people get the idea that they’re moving ahead on this. Well, they know they’re not, they’re just hanging out in the same place, five or six generations sitting in the projects when you’re just supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out.

Now look, I’m telling you. It’s not what they’re doing to us. It’s what we’re not doing. 50 percent drop out. Look, we’re raising our own ingrown immigrants. These people are fighting hard to be ignorant. There’s no English being spoken, and they’re walking and they’re angry. Oh God, they’re angry and they have pistols and they shoot and they do stupid things. And after they kill somebody, they don’t have a plan. Just murder somebody. Boom. Over what? A pizza? And then run to the poor cousin’s house. They sit there and the cousin says “what are you doing here?” “I just killed somebody, man.” “What?” “I just killed somebody, I’ve got to stay here.” “No, you don’t.” “Well, give me some money, I’ll go…” “Where are you going?” “North Carolina.” Everybody wanted to go to North Carolina. But the police know where you’re going because your cousin has a record.
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
A pass?

So Africans selling Africans (which is still happening today) doesn't count?

This is so bizarre that I am not even going to elaborate.

You really are infatuated, aren't you?
If you'd care to read my statement in context, you'll find that "a pass" is taken from the person I was responding to, and that I was talking about presidential candidate's speeches.

It would be kinda bizarre for an American presidential candidate to spend a speech of racial issues in America talking about Africa.
The topic was racial divides in America (which is obviously influences by memories of slavery), not slave-system of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim View Post
A fight over slavery? Stirred up by Wright's sermons? You call that inspiring?
...
The mind boggles....
Apparently you didn't read my post very closely, so I shall repeat the relevent phrase with emphasis:

"THAT is what makes his speech inspiring! The fact that he doesn't give up hope of reconcilation"

Hope is inspiring.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
CorpMediaSux CorpMediaSux is offline
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

The battle lines have been drawn. This is going to be a generational issue. People under 40 have reacted to this speech in AMAZINGLY opposite ways than people over 40. Past vs. future. Young people, step up.
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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

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Originally Posted by CorpMediaSux View Post
The battle lines have been drawn. This is going to be a generational issue. People under 40 have reacted to this speech in AMAZINGLY opposite ways than people over 40. Past vs. future. Young people, step up.
So now we are going to divide the country up by age as well as race.....

Terrific. Just what we need. Still more battle lines. As if we don't have enough confllict.

So much for unity.....
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic1 View Post
JM&J:

According to Slate

Link !!!!! Why Obama's bad investments would make him a better president. - By Henry Blodget - Slate Magazine

Obama's most recent public financial statements, he and his wife, Michelle, were worth between $500,000 and $2 million at the end of 2005 (excluding whatever equity they have in their $1.65 million Chicago house). The bulk of this wealth came from $1.2 million in royalties Obama received that year for The Audacity of Hope and a previously published book (part of a $1.9 million, three-book deal). The $1.2 million figure is presumably pretax, which means that, after paying the IRS, Obama probably kept about $600,000.

All the other canidates are IMO super wealthy

I question the accuracy of your analysis. Can you dispute the nimbers I provided via Slate ?
They are affluent by any standards, and that will only increase.

I have no problem with it - it's true for all candidates. That's life in the US.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
If you'd care to read my statement in context, you'll find that "a pass" is taken from the person I was responding to, and that I was talking about presidential candidate's speeches.

It would be kinda bizarre for an American presidential candidate to spend a speech of racial issues in America talking about Africa.
The topic was racial divides in America (which is obviously influences by memories of slavery), not slave-system of the world.
I would disagree. Slavery is still practiced in Africa, by Africans. It is not the most important point, but it will come into any argument about slavery.


Quote:
Apparently you didn't read my post very closely, so I shall repeat the relevent phrase with emphasis:

"THAT is what makes his speech inspiring! The fact that he doesn't give up hope of reconcilation"

Hope is inspiring.
Apparently you are wrong. I read your comments quite closely.

Hope is inspiring when it is based in reality. Hope based on wishful thinking is dangerous and damaging.

I would have accepted Obama's belief in reconciliation a few weeks ago. After hearing his mentor, I do not see how it is possible.
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

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Originally Posted by Tim View Post
Hope is inspiring when it is based in reality. Hope based on wishful thinking is dangerous and damaging.

I would have accepted Obama's belief in reconciliation a few weeks ago. After hearing his mentor, I do not see how it is possible.
- Hope, in general, is Optimism. An optimistic outlook for whatever situation you face.

- Lack of Hope is Pessimism.

- Disparaging the Hope of others is Cynicism.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

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Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
- Disparaging the Hope of others is Cynicism.

…unless other’s hopes are unfounded, in which case this is simply Realism.
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008
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Re: Obama Speech 3/18 - "Race In America"

Change and Hope = CHOPE!!! Chope is what Obama is all about. A meaningless word from a meaningless candidate that will say anything to get elected. He's gone from being something new and exciting to being "the black candidate" in record time. Maybe he can "Chope" his way into office?

Seriously, Chope-ama is a great orator. But he is really just another liberal democrat. Leadership is more than voting the party line everytime. Nothing Chope-ama has done is distinguishable from any other liberal.
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