Come on Sheriff. I like Obama too, but we can admit that the MSNBC boys just sort of sit and masturbate over him.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

I must concede that ABC did openly report Barack Obama attempting to unjustly influence Palestinian elections:

abc7chicago.com: Obama meets with Arafat's successor 1/12/06

Even Fatah told Barack that democratic election results had to be respected by the democracy loving western world.

Many times, both CNN and Fox have "mistakenly" spelled Obama as Osama.

I wish these people were to be that stupid.

I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Though, it is starting to get off topic.

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There can be no bystanders in the battle for survival. Anyone who will not fight by your side is an enemy you must crush.

We are at war with forces too terrible to comprehend. We cannot afford mercy for any of its victims too weak to take the correct course. Mercy destroys us; it weakens us and saps our resolve. Put aside all such thoughts. They are not worthy of those in the service of country.

My view of this speech is that it was unnecesary. I dont beleive Obama agrees with this preacher. He is using the preacher and the church to forward his political career. That backfired. All he needs to do is say I wasnt aware, now I am, and I am distancing myself. There is no need to have speechs on race, or marches or whatever. The best thing we can do is ignore race. We will never change the minds of the radicals who are racists, so stop trying. THey will die off.

Also, I wonder if Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton are pissed that Obama is getting all the attention on this issue.

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

Moving from one church to another is indeed a major step, but if I belonged to a church where the pastor ranted and raved and spewed forth this level of hatred, I would be out of there and out of the parking lot before the last hymn.

Sharptons silence on this has me wondering if he is hoptalized or something. (coma maybe?)

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Yes, he is a fighter, and he is also a gifted speaker.

But the one word to describe this speech is divisive.

Those who support Obama may say that this is necessary and even inevitable, and that we have to argue and fight if we are going to clear the air. But this has little to do with the unifying, inclusive tone and spirit of the campaign so far.

Obama got in some jabs that were indeed cutting. He went after his racist grandmother, Geraldine Ferraro, Reagan voters and Wall Street. That's quite a mix. The problem is: he cannot alienate too many groups if he wants to win a national election.

It is likely we are in a recession. What does he have to say about that? Slamming the business community will always bring approval from the left - epsecially when the speaker is fabulously welathy. But what is he going to do to stimulate the economy and create all these jobs he is talking about? He can't have it both ways.

He is receiving a great deal of salivating praise from the far left for his "brave" speech on race - but he wants to be president of an entire nation.

The "glow" is gone. The bloom if off the rose. Obama has been exposed for what he is : A victim. He sees the world through the eyes of Jeremiah Wright. He did not disassociate himself from Rev Wright, he agrees with Rev Wright. He lost this election when he gave that speech. He'd of been far better off to say nothing. NOw he is nothing more than "the black candidate". His entire candidacy is about race. He doesn't transcend anything. He is just another liberal. Just another liar. Just another politician who'll say anything to get elected.

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I think at this point there needs to be a focus on an immediate increase in spending and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat . . . I believe later on there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of the money."
-- Barney Frank, October 20, 2008

Tim thanks for bringing it back to the speech. But you are dead wrong.

That wasn't his intention. In fact numerous times during the speech he references the DANGER of using race as a "political football" with which you "score points" or you make a career out of it. This is exactly the critic of people like Sharpton or Jesse Jackson that you no doubt would agree with. And you say he's being divisive. A question Tim, how can you talk about race without being divisive if this isn't it?

,
He spoke of his grandmother with love and respect and adoration. How can you say he "went after her" Here is the quote.
Then later he says, I think most Americans whose grandparents are still living have the exact same feelings towards older members of their family. You love them. You respect them. You know they would die for you. But every now and then they show their age and they show the kind of racism that was commonplace in society when they were young. How is that "taking a shot" at grandma. I honestly don't understand.

Again, he went "after them" How. Was his description of people's reasons for voting for Reagan innacurate? Here is what he said.
Is this innacurate? I read this board and I'm sure so do you. Affirmative action and welfare are brought up in every. single. conversation about race. You can't deny it. It was part of the social and political conversatoin when Reagan was elected, you can't deny that either. Is he taking those people on or merely accurately describing thing?

I think he can alienate wall street in this election cycle. No one likes them. And you know what. If people are "alienated" by his actual words. Then they wouldnt have voted for him anyway. But I have a really hard time understanding how you can view this speech as divisive? Did he only have criticisms for whites?
You didn't listen to the speech. He critisized the media and the political scene for harping on Ferraro's comments. He didn't call her racist and he didn't condem her as racist. In fact her mentions her only twice, once specifically and once he alludes to her. BOTH times he does so to point out that there's rediculousness on either side. Then he says
I think only one part of the speech was "divisive" and thats when he threw down the gauntlet. What kind of politics will we have in this country. More of the same, or will we stop seeing things only in race and start tackling the big important issues.
He has quite a bit to say about that. In fact if you have been following his campaign this is the FIRST time he's ever talked about race as a presidential candidate. He has a very detailed plan for the economy. I would LOVE for the media to ask him questoins about the economy. They, however, seem singularly focused on the issue of race. Check out the mans website. It is FULL of really innovative and PRO-business solutions for the recession.

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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

he doesn't want to draw atention to it....what? You think he hasn't done his fair share of "bash the white boy"?

They want it to go away.


and since obama said;

"But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right
now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality. ".



Uhm, I thought his candidacy was not about race? Is this expediency of the moment or?

And to "simply amplify the negative" etc. yes that is true, but as a former church goer and a person who went to military school in the deep south and attended several black churches for several school terms
(approx. 10 times a term), let me tell you this use of “amplify” is very clever, as if discussing this above others is somehow wrong , and is an attempt to slide this issue away from what it is really about- his Judgment- and declarative statements that in any venue, simply cannot be interpreted any other way.

Nor the fact that, he admitted he has heard “controversial” statements made by Wright…okay. Saturday he said he never heard “those” statements by Wright…cool. Well, what of the other statements? Pertaining to what?

Frankly, imho- he delivered a great speech. But as I said, when you sit down and read it sans the clapping in between, the soaring, well done oratory, he left many questions unanswered and missed the boat on a few things he could have said.

The sum total of the speech left me feeling;

a)he wasn’t honest as to why he went to this church and stayed there ( I think know the reason, someone want to guess?)

b)he tacked back into the wind and now wants to be the “race” candidate,

c) he made a strategic error by doing so, Hillary is loving this. He has labeled himself, and he can talk all the “its all a out us” he wants, the remarks he made will follow him as will Wrights vengeful rhetoric.

d) most of all- hes just another Politician……wit, charm, charisma ( though NOBODY beats Bill), but hes got some to be sure…..

Oh and I’ll tell you from my estimates, the media has read this all wrong anyway. The average white Hispanic etc. knows the blacks were slaves in this country and on one level hearing blacks “bitch” about it, means squat, oh theres a well worn and tired derision for vicitimology ingrates, but its not directed at Obama, although he may own some of that now for those who can parse the landscape of his past. But, NO ONE I have spoken too holds that against Wright, what they hold is the asinine comments regards HIV, The drugs peddled by the CIA, the AQ comparison etc…

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Guess we'd have to ask obama.

A man who is running to be PRESIDENT

It's looking that way.

I have to say I'm disappointed in the guy. Do we need an Al Sharkton or a Jessie Hijackson type
in the whitehouse

I think NOT.

Looks that way.

His facade became transparent with the things he said in that speech. Bring up racial divides even MORE.

As if we need it.

What he said was supposed to have a uniting effect ?

Ya sure

Alex, the speech wasn't for you. It was for people who aren't cynical, who believe that the American government can be as noble and as wonderful as the American people. If you don't believe those things why do you even vote? Why participate at all? This speech was patriotic, nationalist and PRO-America. I haven't heard a man speak so highly about American principles and ideals in my lifetime. Can you find a single non-patriotic thing in this speech.

And for the last time. HE WROTE IT!

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Yesterday, John McCain actually said that if he’s president he’ll take on, and I quote, 'the old boys’ network in Washington.' I’m not making this up. This is somebody been in Congress for 26 years, who put seven of the most powerful Washington lobbyists in charge of his campaign. And now he tells us that he’s the one who’s gonna take on the old boys' network,” he said. “In the McCain campaign that’s called a staff meeting!- Obama, 9/17/2008

That's a catch 22. A speech that refers to people exclusively in terms of group identity is by its nature divisive. It may be necessary to do this, but it always has the potential to be exposive. There are always people on all sides who do not say what they really think after a speech like this.

Is there room in your view for disagreement with Obama? Or is he automatically correct simply because he mentions race? I did not hear him say we were supposed to come together. He listed grievances. Now, many of those grievances may be legitimate - but life is more than complaints, however eloquently expressed.

The leading media editorials fell over each other singing his praises and thanking him for a great speech. Their comments are, to me, absurd. His speech had some solid moments, but it was not that impressive.