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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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My approach is that I think Obama is what's best for our country in our current state. We need to be smarter about how we wage the war on terrorism and he's the one that actually seems to match my perspective on this. Obama doesn't match me on the all the issues though. I think, like all other presidents, much of his platform is campaign filler and he won't actually get around to implementing the peripheral issues in full. But I do see that he does seem to listen, discuss, weigh, and compromise in his approach to all issues. His administration might actually pass some productive legislation. To me, he seems the most rational and balanced of all the remaining candidates.
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   Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008! 
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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In essence, that perspective amounts to doubt. And I would say it's not reasonable doubt.
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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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What do you know better than me because you fight the war? You know my point better than I do. You see it first hand. We are not welcome. You cannot despute that. Bombings everyday against US troops kind of makes it obvious. Remember you say you fight for me and all that nonsence you speak. You fight for the government and what they want. Don't blame me because you didn't get the easy money you thought the army was.
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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I go with 2 and 3, I said so several pages ago. In one sense I give him props for not disowning him, but then that’s a calculated risk he is willing to take it appears. Fine I never said he was stupid, so I assume he has decided to take a stand. Maybe he really feels put upon and this is all just dreck. That’s cool too. He has made his case we'll see where it takes him. But the afore mentioned being said, this top me at elast, speaks to a lack of judgment.....old saying first you gotta make money then you can become a pillar and do good things. So, First you gotta get elected, then you can do good things. Your post got me to thinking on another plane. So I’ll say straight up, if he had said; “hey, I have known this man for 20 years. When I was a fresh kid Illinois state nominee, I needed him, we became went on to become deep friends, he was there for me whenever I needed him and I aint throwing him under the bus, I love this guy, and though he’s off the wall, I cannot just drop my feelings for him.” I would have quit this topic the minute he said it. That I can respect despite the obvious differences I have with Wrights message and whatever guerilla tendencies Obama may hold of such. He would not have gotten my vote because as alex said, I am diametrically opposed to his platform, but I would have stf up. But he was only uhm, somewhat honest, his meanderings trying to draw some tenuous link between wrights views and his grandmothers on race etc...made me think he was trying, not to well to slide one by me. To put this in another context, I find Obama judgment deeply flawed. One of my biggest issues with Clinton was he was “stupid”. No, not dumb, he was intelligent, no doubt about it, and a guy I am sure I’d enjoy playing cards with or having a beer or 2. BUT when it comes to being the C in C, give me the smart guy, the clever guy, the guy who knows when its time to cut cards with the devil, or fold’em instead of holding them. He didn’t have that. And niether does it appear, Obama.
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Obama-e fungis nati homines....
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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One definitive measure of a person's character is the extent to which he/she can publicly espouse an extremely unpopular view which he/she genuninely believes is accurate. Dunno 'bout you, but shouting "God damn America!" to a large congregation has got to be the a shining example of that. Time to get real--when Wright said that, he wasn't being racist, or hateful toward all Americans. Clearly, Wright is not racist since he's invited White, Black, and Asian members to his church. What Wright meant to say in those explosive sermons was not that America needs to die, but that the blatant hypocrisy evident in the discrepancy between the ideals of the Constitution and Free Enterprise and the reality of uncompensated forced relocation, slavery and segregation, coupled with the US govt's ongoing habit of invading sovereign countries and sponsoring terrorism in the "name of democracy" is something that needs to be damned to hell. The USA is the world's biggest hypocrite when it comes to democracy--hands down--all educated folk know that. (What other nation could claim that terrorists are the enemy of democracy, then claim that the democratically elected Palestinian govt. are terrorists?) Obama, being an educated man--also knows that, and clearly knew what Wright meant in those speeches. Consequently, he correctly denounced the literal meaning of Wright's statement in his "A More Perfect Union" speech.
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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes -- S
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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 Plenty of people are excited about Obama, and he has the MSM fully behind him. I still do not think that will be enough to overcome the damage.
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"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." -- Barack Obama 
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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Damn I don't believe it, but I have to agree with Frank on this one.....  Wright is no different than the people over at Aryan Nation....both preach distrust and hate based on race.
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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I can only speak from my own personal experience. Again, during my 50+ years I have been to many churches. Politics is not a topic, when I am in church. Primarily because, the churches I attend are multi-cultural, (black, white, asian, etc.) including the poor, middle & upper class people. For the Pastor to get political with his personal opinions, would only offend our congregation. It would bring divisiveness, to a congregation that is very content with one another, at least, while they are in church. I am responsible for choosing the churches I have attended during my lifetime. I don't go there to get a political opinion from the Pastor. I get those on my own. I was just fine with Barack Obama's rejection of Luis Faragon. Understandably, he does not personally know this man, & stated that he did not share his views. This I believed, & still do. However, when his 20 year Pastor Wright came out on video. A man that Barack Obama, tried at first to claim as a big-loud mouthed uncle. Yet as stated repeatedly was the inspiration of his book. Obviously, this is a man that Barack Obama respects & admires. Obama, like myself has choices in the churches we choose to attend. Barack Obama made his choice. He went to this church for 20 years, & had a very close relationship with Pastor Wright. This in itself, is more than enough to question the judgement of Barack Obama.
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03-24-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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03-25-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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If he would have left this church, I would have nothing to say. But he didn't. He had choices & he made a very bad one to stay in this church. Let alone be a 20 year member of it, & financially support it too. Which brings the issue of Obama's judgement & character to the forefront. Here was a man that was sailing into the White House. No obstacles to confront him, except Hillary Clinton, who is behind. Barack Obama had rock star status, until we all got to hear Pastor Wright. Now, it's critical for the democrats to figure out between Hillary & Obama who is electable in the general election. Who can face John McCain, not only on issues, but character & judgement to win the White House. Most of the states Obama has won, are typically red states. The southern states, considered the bible belt of this country, are critical to win. This we have witnessed over the last 2 election cycles. Pastor Wright has incensed Americans from these parts of the country. It's in the polls. Right now he is still ahead of Hillary regarding a strickly democrat poll, but today in a general election he would lose to McCain. He has lost independents, especially. Independents make up 60% of the electorate, stating they are less likely to vote for him. Closet republicans, hmm. Will they still support him? The million dollar question is: Are these voters going to remember Pastor Wright in November? If they do, Obama will lose the election. Last edited by Oreo; 03-25-2008 at 09:41 PM.
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03-26-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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This is a very important question. We rely on the MSM for our news and information. Don't you think it is wrong, perhaps criminal, for them to back any single candidate? By supporting one side or one candidate aren't they using censorship and propaganda to conduct voter suppression? If they're gonna do that shouldn't they lose their right to be called fair and unbiased. Shouldn't they have to wear the label they deserve as the official voice of the DNC? Shouldn't we take the debates away from CNN, ABC, or MSNBC and put it in the hands of someone who isn't stumping for one particular candidate or one particular party? For that matter if they support only one party or one candidate can't they be sued for false advertising when they claim in their ads they are being unbiased and accurate? Doesn't anybody who is the beneficiary of this one-sided support from the MSM feel this arrangement thwarts Democracy in this country? What's the difference between what the MSM is doing and talk-radio? Which one is being more honest?
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  "These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis," "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." - Rep. Barney Frank (D) Last edited by mudwhistle; 03-26-2008 at 04:43 AM.
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04-02-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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His appeal to moderate conservatives has vanished. He may win with the support of the left alone, but it will be very difficult. Remember that the media has stopped showing those speeches by Wright. They are carefully protecting Obama in a cocoon, and praising him for every move he makes and every word he says. I don't enjoy watching the media make fools of themselves over a candidate. The hypocrisy regarding this issue in the media is more than usually absurd. Imagine the scenario; a leading Republican candidate has been listening to white supremacist sermons for twenty years from a "pastor/mentor/advisor" who makes paranoid and hate-filled statements at the top of his lungs and denounces the United Sates. Yet the candidate dedicates his book to him. He takes a line from a "sermon" and uses it as his book title. He puts him on his campaign team. He refuses to separate from him. What would happen to this Republican candidate? His campaign would end. You know it and I know it. But the media is so infatuated with Obama that even this is disregarded. The left will put up with absolutely anything when they are obsesses with a candidate - anything.
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04-02-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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To call Bush a "moderate" because he has increased federal spending and entitlements is, I believe, to misunderstand the essence of what conservatism is about. Conservatism is not necessarily about shrinking government nor about increasing it. It is about protecting privilege and the opportunity to become wealthy and enjoy the fruits of that wealth. Liberalism, in contrast, is about expanding rights and curtailing the power of the privileged. Everything else is simply a means to one or the other end. Everything Bush has done in office has served conservative ends by that meaning of the word. Bush is certainly no moderate. Oreo: You've said several times now that you were an Obama supporter and a contributor to his campaign, yet you have also expressed views on the Iraq war and other issues that are completely contrary to where Obama stands. My question, and this is pure curiosity, is this: WHY were you an Obama supporter? I can't see any reason at all, unless the name you've chosen indicates you're a black person and you were supporting Obama because he too is black. You seem to disagree with him just about across the board, so other than that your former support makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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04-02-2008
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Re: Americans Believe Obama on Race and Wright.
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I no longer use the term "liberal" - only "left".
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