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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
I'm sure they both have a partisian angle, And I really don't have a problem with either of them. I do not feel that a school is the proper setting for either group. As I stated in an earlier post If they wanted to talk to school kids they could have made arrangments to do it after school thnm the kids and their parents would have had the choice to either attend or not. That would have avoided all the mess.
Then what do you think school is for? To have fun? To knock up a girl when you go to the prom?

School, at least in theory, is to help young men and women prepare them for the next step whether it be college or work. You can only get so much from books, so much from You Tube, so much from the news, etc. This type of event, which was more frequent when I was growing up, is part of the education process. The only thing I see is someone who wants the school to act more like a surrogate parent than to act like a place for learning not being afraid to show kids both sides, or even one side of an issue.

Quote:
Again they can talk about whatever they want, They just need to respect the kids and the parents right not to attend. Even if they did do it during school time, they should have sent notification to the parents 1 or 2 days ahead of time. If they had done that it would have also avoided this hassle
I have a feeling that is what the school exactly did. Why else would parents call the school to stage a protest or maybe yank the kids out of school because of one event.

From the article, only about 150 kids, probably in a Civics class or history class, would be attending compare to how many kids are in enrolled? More than likely, 90# of the student body would not be attending the class. But given that they were only going to talk about military service in general, as part of civic responsibility and according to the article, the group is at least meeting your criteria. However, I think this has more to do with your political views than it does about education in general.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
Considering the fact that majority public opinion is against the war in Iraq, I can't think of anywhere other than VFW halls that would be their venue. To impose a one-sided dialog of supporting current administration ME policy on impressionable high schoolers is simply pure political propaganda.
So, some say the group is one one side and some say the NEA is on another side. It looks like having the group speak allows for the impressionable youth getting exposed to both sides.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by wooyarn View Post
The point isn't wheather it's about recruitment or not, or if it's just to sit around and talk. Why should the kids that don't want to be apart of it be assigned extra work, why couldn't they just be dismissed from class for whatever time it was to do what they wanted to do?
Oh really? What is the purpose of school? When you are in school, whether elementary, middle school, high school, or college, you are there to learn first. Whether you have fun or no while learning is a different issue altogether.

The expectations for seniors or even juniors would be to complete a two page paper about a topic that they can talk about. Giving them a choice on what to talk about within the constraints of Civics should be easy for a junior or senior in high school. Butgiving an excuse not to be in school, and that is what you and Americano have suggested, really shows what your educational priorities are.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooyarn View Post
You really should see someone about your anger issues, It's not good for your health.
I'll admit that I have some anger issues but any reasonable person would have them after what we have witnessed in this war.

I think it has something to do with the stupidity of the lefts positions and their use of US deaths like a constant billboard tally to turn Americans against a war.

When you get down to it no war is justifiable. Nobody has the right to kill anyone, but we have to decide if we should allow ourselves to live in fear, which we aren't anymore, or do something about it. So we did something about it and things didn't go exactly as planned. Name a war that went exactly to the original plan. That is why 4000 deaths over a 5 year span doesn't mean what the MSM and Liberals say it does, and I would contend that a primary reason it has gone on this long is our enemies know that their only chance is to keep the violence going and eventually the Democrats will do their work for them. Our enemies use them and curse them for their weakness at the same time.

Compare it to a single operation like Iwo Jima where we lost over 6000 in less then a month, then 4000 in 5 years pales in comparison. If you compare the two with objectivity the Iraq War represents an amazing improvement. It wouldn't be such a terrible thing in the eyes of Americans if they didn't get these constant reminders from a MSM with an agenda. Imagine if the same had been done during WII. How much support would the war have in 1944 a year before the end of the war if our MSM had been allowed to do the same thing.

Maybe if everyone would open their eyes they would realize that the reason this is even the issue it is today is because we have politicians in Washington willing to take advantage of this situation to assure their party's hold on power. They couldn't do it with their policies or their problem solving abilities because anyone who has been paying attention would realize that the Democrats in Washington are total disaster and we keep having to find out every 10 years or so that they still haven't changed their ways. Democrats seem to have a policy of "How can we fool them today" rather then be honest and compitent leaders. So they constantly spout inflamitory statements which radicals use to support their crazy ideas and now we hear Vets aren't allowed to have get togethers unless it's a protest against the war. It seems the guys that should be protesting the war the most this time aren't.
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Last edited by mudwhistle; 03-28-2008 at 05:50 AM.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
Johnny K Johnny K is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
It was a figure of speech. "Limousine Liberal" is a figure of speech. I could have easily used the word "yuppie" or "Soccer parents" to describe them as well.
"Figure of speech" you say? Nice try to spin to diminish your attempt to denigrate those that you don't know and paint them as something they clearly are not. But then that's business as usual coming from your side of the aisle. Don't like the message? Attack the messenger.

BTW, soccer isn't real big here either, try "hockey parents" instead. "Yuppie?" Do you mean that trying to have a piece of the American Dream is now a bad thing? And of course, what you failed miserably to address, is that the people you were insulting, are nothing like your tired generalization insinuated.

So go right ahead and blather on about that which you clearly don't have any real world knowledge of. Just do it in your own area, you aren't welcome here. Send your own family members off to the glorious, romantic war to kill and die, instead of trying to use ours to do your dirty work.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
Oh really? What is the purpose of school? When you are in school, whether elementary, middle school, high school, or college, you are there to learn first. Whether you have fun or no while learning is a different issue altogether.

The expectations for seniors or even juniors would be to complete a two page paper about a topic that they can talk about. Giving them a choice on what to talk about within the constraints of Civics should be easy for a junior or senior in high school. Butgiving an excuse not to be in school, and that is what you and Americano have suggested, really shows what your educational priorities are.
No, my point was that using school time for students to listen to military veterans tout their 'successful' experiences in Afghanistan/Iraq, recruitment in essence, is not what I consider education. The school might as well dismiss the students rather than having them subjected to non-educational matter in that form.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
wooyarn wooyarn is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
Then what do you think school is for? To have fun? To knock up a girl when you go to the prom?

School, at least in theory, is to help young men and women prepare them for the next step whether it be college or work. You can only get so much from books, so much from You Tube, so much from the news, etc. This type of event, which was more frequent when I was growing up, is part of the education process. The only thing I see is someone who wants the school to act more like a surrogate parent than to act like a place for learning not being afraid to show kids both sides, or even one side of an issue.

I can agree with you on prepairing the kids for college/work. I don't even have a problem with bringing diff. groups of people to speak to the kids be it the Police/Fire Dept, Boyscouts,a Military group or whoever. What we disagree on is the way it was done and the anger with the parents/kids that did not want to be envolved. I don't see how you can say that these people that chose not to be envolved are looking for the school to be surrogate parents. IMO they are excersising thier responsibility/right to raise their kid as they deem proper, and just because it doesn't fit into what others believe doesn't make it wrong.


I have a feeling that is what the school exactly did. Why else would parents call the school to stage a protest or maybe yank the kids out of school because of one event.

I didn't see in the story where they sent anything home for the parents to see or sign, if this had been done then there would have been no reason for the parents to call the school they could have made other arrangments for their kids that day, so I have a feeling this is something that was just planned by the School. When my 3 kids were in school and something out of the normal daily routine the kids were given a permission slip for the parents to see and sign giveing the parents the choice. I am now raising 2 granddaughters and still have these slips sent home. The story also didn't say if this group or the school principle had cleared this thru the state or local school boards.

From the article, only about 150 kids, probably in a Civics class or history class, would be attending compare to how many kids are in enrolled? More than likely, 90# of the student body would not be attending the class. But given that they were only going to talk about military service in general, as part of civic responsibility and according to the article, the group is at least meeting your criteria. However, I think this has more to do with your political views than it does about education in general.
I am very pro-military.I spent 25 years in the U.S.Navy, I am niether Rep. or Dem. I'm registered Indep. and have no political views on this issue. The only issue I have and what I'm saying is that parents have the responsibility/right to raise they kids as they see fit and should not be considered anything other then parents trying to raise their kids as they see fit. I have a feeling that the title of this thread was chosen with the desire to just spread some elses "Political Views". Can you show me where the parents that called the school were/are in fact "anti-american left"?. Maybe some of them are Dems. and maybe some of them are Reps.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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goober goober is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
Not questioning the educator. I understand why he canceled it, I just do not agree with the assertion it is with the veterans. Remember, you and others were the ones who said they were from a "right wing hate group" despite all the evidence of the contrary. I put more blame on the parents who thought this was a purely political event to begin with, which it was not, and wanted to ruin it for everybody else. These are the "Limousine Liberals" who are quite adept at telling everybody what to do yet dn not do the same things themselves.
If you are not questioning the principal then what's all the fuss about?
The bottom line is that the principal made a decision, which is his job, about a scheduled event that he felt was changing in character from an educational event to a political event.
It's his school, and it's his decision.
So why is it that the "Anti-American Left" is the target?
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
wooyarn wooyarn is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudwhistle View Post
I'll admit that I have some anger issues but any reasonable person would have them after what we have witnessed in this war.

I think it has something to do with the stupidity of the lefts positions and their use of US deaths like a constant billboard tally to turn Americans against a war.

I think you should step back and look at this logocally. It's not the so called left turning Americans against the war. Theres lots of reasons the American public is turning against the war.
1) We were justified and had world support in Afganistan, we turned our backs there and invaded another country.
2) The reasons we were given for invading Iraq have been proven wrong.
3) This country now has a massive debt that is destroying our econemy
4) Going into the 6 years in Iraq and 7 years in Afganistan and no closer to the end.
6) This country is so divided and hate filled, just look at this board and most of the other boards and it's plain to see.
Theres alot of reasons for it. But to blame it all on the so called left is just IMO wrong. Thats like saying the left has all the power and is running the country. No if you just have to place blame on someone for the way the wars are going, then the blame rest on the people that are calling the shots,making the decissions, and making the plans. From the Pentagon to the White House.
President Bush has gotten everything he has asked for, yes, people in the Congress and Senate have flapped their pie holes, and some Americans have expressed their opinion, some times very loudly, and sometimes in ways that they maybe shouldn't have. But the fact remains that President Bush and the Pentagon have gotten whatever they asked for.


When you get down to it no war is justifiable. Nobody has the right to kill anyone, but we have to decide if we should allow ourselves to live in fear, which we aren't anymore, or do something about it. So we did something about it and things didn't go exactly as planned. Name a war that went exactly to the original plan. That is why 4000 deaths over a 5 year span doesn't mean what the MSM and Liberals say it does, and I would contend that a primary reason it has gone on this long is our enemies know that their only chance is to keep the violence going and eventually the Democrats will do their work for them. Our enemies use them and curse them for their weakness at the same time.

Compare it to a single operation like Iwo Jima where we lost over 6000 in less then a month, then 4000 in 5 years pales in comparison. If you compare the two with objectivity the Iraq War represents an amazing improvement. It wouldn't be such a terrible thing in the eyes of Americans if they didn't get these constant reminders from a MSM with an agenda. Imagine if the same had been done during WII. How much support would the war have in 1944 a year before the end of the war if our MSM had been allowed to do the same thing.

Maybe if everyone would open their eyes they would realize that the reason this is even the issue it is today is because we have politicians in Washington willing to take advantage of this situation to assure their party's hold on power. They couldn't do it with their policies or their problem solving abilities because anyone who has been paying attention would realize that the Democrats in Washington are total disaster and we keep having to find out every 10 years or so that they still haven't changed their ways. Democrats seem to have a policy of "How can we fool them today" rather then be honest and compitent leaders. So they constantly spout inflamitory statements which radicals use to support their crazy ideas and now we hear Vets aren't allowed to have get togethers unless it's a protest against the war. It seems the guys that should be protesting the war the most this time aren't.
Both parties will do anything to get/stay in power. If you really take a good hard look you will see that both parties are trying to lead the country in the same direction, just one is trying to do it faster then the other.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

This is what you get from govt schools. Politically correct BS. You would think it would be a good thing for students to get to see history from a real source instead of just a text book.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by jviehe View Post
This is what you get from govt schools. Politically correct BS. You would think it would be a good thing for students to get to see history from a real source instead of just a text book.
This isn't about that.
This is a principal making a decision that what was planned as an educational event was turning into a political event.
It's his school to run, he sets the agenda, and he has decided that this event was not a good fit for the curriculum.
The decision was based on the educational merits of the event, not on politics.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

hummm..maybe a wild analogy here but lets say the peace corps wanted to come in and do a gig?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
wooyarn wooyarn is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
hummm..maybe a wild analogy here but lets say the peace corps wanted to come in and do a gig?
I don't see a problem with that, as long as they followed the guide lines set down by the State and Local school boards and the rights of those that do not want to be involved are respected. As i have stated before IMO the best way to deal with things like this is to schedual them after normal school times in the gym or auditorium. Then attendance or non attendance is not a problem.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
hummm..maybe a wild analogy here but lets say the peace corps wanted to come in and do a gig?
Would there be political demonstrations outside the building?
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"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2008
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

what does that have to do with it?
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So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

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