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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post
No, my point was that using school time for students to listen to military veterans tout their 'successful' experiences in Afghanistan/Iraq, recruitment in essence, is not what I consider education. The school might as well dismiss the students rather than having them subjected to non-educational matter in that form.
Americano,
Having individuals talk about their experience in the military is not recruitment. It is no more recruitment when a missionary or an employee from UNICEF, the Federal, state, or local government comes and speaks about what is happening in other parts of the world or where what they do for a living. Whether or not one gets asked questions about their personal feelings is a different matter altogether.

But hey, sheltering kids by pretending or trumping up something as ridiculous your post shows why our public schools are failing.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
"Figure of speech" you say? Nice try to spin to diminish your attempt to denigrate those that you don't know and paint them as something they clearly are not. But then that's business as usual coming from your side of the aisle. Don't like the message? Attack the messenger.

BTW, soccer isn't real big here either, try "hockey parents" instead. "Yuppie?" Do you mean that trying to have a piece of the American Dream is now a bad thing? And of course, what you failed miserably to address, is that the people you were insulting, are nothing like your tired generalization insinuated.

So go right ahead and blather on about that which you clearly don't have any real world knowledge of. Just do it in your own area, you aren't welcome here. Send your own family members off to the glorious, romantic war to kill and die, instead of trying to use ours to do your dirty work.
What part of "Figure of speech" do you not understand?

Adding erroneous information such as how far you live from the high school or the fact that "hockey" is the sport most people are in line with in the area really does not add anything to the debate here nor does it suggest your reading comprehension is at collegiate level. Nor does the information in your post suggest you are "more knowledgeable" about the facts or circumstances of what happened at the school or why the individuals was going to talk about either.

If you want to debate the merits of war in general, that is a different topic altogether.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
I can agree with you on prepairing the kids for college/work. I don't even have a problem with bringing diff. groups of people to speak to the kids be it the Police/Fire Dept, Boyscouts,a Military group or whoever. What we disagree on is the way it was done and the anger with the parents/kids that did not want to be envolved. I don't see how you can say that these people that chose not to be envolved are looking for the school to be surrogate parents. IMO they are excersising thier responsibility/right to raise their kid as they deem proper, and just because it doesn't fit into what others believe doesn't make it wrong.
The part I disagree is that the school has become a surrogate parent on raising the kid. I have no problem with parents raising their kids in their own home, not in a public school or any other public forum. And if the situation was in reverse where you had veterans who came from a political group against the war but was only going to talk about their service, you would still have parents protest, possibly withdraw their kids for that day, and the principal canceling the event because it became "too political." The only exception is that posters here are agreeing with the principal would now question why the principal canceled in the first place. The point I am making is that in either situation, it was the parent, not the principal that forced the debate into the poltiical spectrum under the guise of raising their children. It is why I blame the parents, not the principal. Sheltering your kids from other points of view or to hear something that was not supposed to be political but belieivitng it was based on the parents political ideology truly shows how degraded the public school system has become. It is not just with the secondary education but also with post secondary education, to some extent. And the debate on the war that I am seeing now is mild compared to the debate by DISD to place some form of dress code, but that is a different topic.

Quote:
I didn't see in the story where they sent anything home for the parents to see or sign, if this had been done then there would have been no reason for the parents to call the school they could have made other arrangments for their kids that day, so I have a feeling this is something that was just planned by the School. When my 3 kids were in school and something out of the normal daily routine the kids were given a permission slip for the parents to see and sign giveing the parents the choice. I am now raising 2 granddaughters and still have these slips sent home. The story also didn't say if this group or the school principle had cleared this thru the state or local school boards
I only made an assumption that is how it was done. How else would the parents know, in advance, about the event? For instance, when Obama came and did a town hall meeting on the school premises, permission slips were given, some parents protested and even withdrew their kid from school that day , and the event went off without any incident.

As for the particulars, I have found that newspapers articles really don't give the whole story or all the facts to begin with. Their storyline was that the event was canceled because of parents protesting. Any facts that would either made the principal look better or worse than the parents would have caused even more uproar, IMO.

Quote:
I am very pro-military.I spent 25 years in the U.S.Navy, I am niether Rep. or Dem. I'm registered Indep. and have no political views on this issue. The only issue I have and what I'm saying is that parents have the responsibility/right to raise they kids as they see fit and should not be considered anything other then parents trying to raise their kids as they see fit. I have a feeling that the title of this thread was chosen with the desire to just spread some elses "Political Views". Can you show me where the parents that called the school were/are in fact "anti-american left"?. Maybe some of them are Dems. and maybe some of them are Reps
I have no doubt that the title of the thread was sensationalized (and the same can go about McCain, Clinton, Obama, Bush, etc.) and I also disagree that it was caused by the "anti-American left." No where in my post have I stated explicitly that it was the left. My grudge is on the parents who view the school as their surrogate helping to raise the kids.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goober View Post
If you are not questioning the principal then what's all the fuss about?
The bottom line is that the principal made a decision, which is his job, about a scheduled event that he felt was changing in character from an educational event to a political event.
It's his school, and it's his decision.
So why is it that the "Anti-American Left" is the target?
What part of me blaming the parents did you not understand, Goober?
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Hudson Hudson is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
Interesting choice of words.

"govt schools" You mean like those in boot camp?

"Politically" No argument there, this is purely political.

"correct" No argument here either, given that by a long shot, most Americans disagree with the minority support of this war.

"BS" That's your opinion, most of us don't agree with you. Deal with it.

"You would think it would be a good thing for students to get to see history from a real source instead of just a text book."

I'd agree if this was anything other than propoganda disguised as "real history." It's nothing more than a covert attempt to recruit fresh meat for the military grinder.

I'll say it again, if you so support this war, send your family's kids off to fight it, leave ours out.
There was no propaganda. The only propoganda coming was from certain parents and from you.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Johnny K Johnny K is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
What part of "Figure of speech" do you not understand?

Adding erroneous information such as how far you live from the high school or the fact that "hockey" is the sport most people are in line with in the area really does not add anything to the debate here nor does it suggest your reading comprehensions at collegiate level. Nor does the information in your post suggest you are "more knowledgeable" about the facts or circumstances of what happened at the school or why the individuals was going to talk about either.
You sir are completely out of line. I will not countenance being called a liar and being barraged with personal attacks by the likes of you, in violation of forum rules. I suggest you edit your post appropriately or it will be reported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson View Post
If you want to debate the merits of war in general, that is a different topic altogether.
The merits of the war are not the topic of this thread, the merits of having persons with a clear political agenda having the ability in a public school to pitch it to a captive audience that includes MY family members is.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
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jviehe jviehe is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
Interesting choice of words.

"govt schools" You mean like those in boot camp?

"Politically" No argument there, this is purely political.

"correct" No argument here either, given that by a long shot, most Americans disagree with the minority support of this war.

"BS" That's your opinion, most of us don't agree with you. Deal with it.

"You would think it would be a good thing for students to get to see history from a real source instead of just a text book."

I'd agree if this was anything other than propoganda disguised as "real history." It's nothing more than a covert attempt to recruit fresh meat for the military grinder.

I'll say it again, if you so support this war, send your family's kids off to fight it, leave ours out.
No one is forced to join the military.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
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jviehe jviehe is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
Well, how about this?

Save your propoganda about this glorious, romantic war for YOUR KIDS. Don't feed to to our family's kids.

There Imp, does that make you feel better?
Can we stop the anti war propaganda that they are fed then as well?
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Lost Soul Lost Soul is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
The merits of the war are not the topic of this thread, the merits of having persons with a clear political agenda having the ability in a public school to pitch it to a captive audience that includes MY family members is.
Please show me where a political message being stated by the vets.

So by your logic, anyone talking about the pro's and benefits of serving your country in the US Armed Forces has a political undertone message to vote republican?

Yes I know we vote at about 60 to 70% republican but there is a good number of democrats in the military. And I would have to say without a doubt the majority would have to agree there is nothing wrong with vets talking to teenagers about considering a career in the military.

You do understand that not all serving in military are combat soldiers right? It takes more troops to support the combat units than troops in combat.

I will hire a 4 year vet with military training over anyone with a 4 year degree in the same field.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
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mudwhistle mudwhistle is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by RFK1968 View Post
If we're going to use casualties as a variable for measuring levels of violence, I think it's acceptable to discuss death rates. I'm not sure milestone is the best word to describe the media's coverage. After all, as long as death rates are being reported (and I think they have to be), people will find out and want to know.

I don't disagree at all with your second paragraph.
The death rates are a tool, nothing more.

I would love it if we left Iraq, but it's a terrible idea. The war is just a public relations campaign using the world media to win public support for criminal activity. The bad guys are using our own media to trick us into letting our guard down. Iran has been prepping Southern Iraq for a takeover and we can't let it happen.
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Soul View Post
Please show me where a political message being stated by the vets.

So by your logic, anyone talking about the pro's and benefits of serving your country in the US Armed Forces has a political undertone message to vote republican?
Did you bother reading your own text?

"The visit, which U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Stillwater, had been scheduled to attend, is sponsored by Vets for Freedom"

Quote:
Yes I know we vote at about 60 to 70% republican but there is a good number of democrats in the military. And I would have to say without a doubt the majority would have to agree there is nothing wrong with vets talking to teenagers about considering a career in the military.
That's pure recruitment, nothing else, and unsuitable as a school event.

Quote:
You do understand that not all serving in military are combat soldiers right? It takes more troops to support the combat units than troops in combat.

I will hire a 4 year vet with military training over anyone with a 4 year degree in the same field.
What does that have to do with the topic?
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
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Imperator Imperator is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americano View Post

That's pure recruitment, nothing else, and unsuitable as a school event.

uhm, how about at a career day?
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
uhm, how about at a career day?
That would be suitable with all participants limited to the usual college standards; X number of representatives, defined as recruitment, booths/tables and no politicians in attendance.

Do high schools have career days?
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Americano View Post
That would be suitable with all participants limited to the usual college standards; X number of representatives, defined as recruitment, booths/tables and no politicians in attendance.

Do high schools have career days?
I beleive they do, they may not call it that, the name escapes me.
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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2008
Americano Americano is offline
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Re: Once again the anti American left rears it ugly head.

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
I beleive they do, they may not call it that, the name escapes me.
Seems like it would be a waste of effort. I can't imagine anyone other than a military after unskilled cannon fodder offering signing bonuses being interested in high school level labor recruitment.
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