I keep seeing the right wing regulars saying that Obama would be the most far-left nominee in history.
As I recall, the same people were saying that about Kerry.
So who says he's the most far left?
Is that just something that the GOP uses to describe whichever Democrat they happen to be talking about?
Or is it actually a measurable quantity?

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

In terms of how progressive each is/was measured by the issues of the time, I don't think I am. Obviously just as people, they are quite different, but both belong in the liberal category.

By today's standards any politician of that era would be downright Neanderthal. That's irrelevant, though. By the standards of the time when he actually lived, TR was very, very progressive indeed. Well, among those who had a shot at the presidency, anyway. That's true of his imperialism as much as it is of his trust-busting. The conservatives of those days were isolationist. Issues don't stay constant. Remember, it was once a cutting-edge, controversial progressive theme to oppose hereditary monarchy. By that measure, every candidate today is a raging leftie.

If you think Obama "votes the party line at every opportunity," you have a far less cynical view of the Democratic Party than I do.

*chuckle*

I voted for Kerry.

Try again....

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

You measure a man by his deeds. Obama's measurable deeds are his voting records. The reason he is considered the "most liberal senator" in the Senate is because of the National Review ratings. This article explains the methodology used: NATIONAL JOURNAL: Obama: Most Liberal Senator in 2007 (01/31/2008)

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I think at this point there needs to be a focus on an immediate increase in spending and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second seat . . . I believe later on there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of very rich people out there whom we can tax at a point down the road and recover some of the money."
-- Barney Frank, October 20, 2008

Whaaaaaatttttt?????



Why???

No kidding? Were I a betting man, I would have had you abstaining in '04...

__________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

I'm stunned, but then again Tim you can't be upset at Republicans not rallying round McCain when you voted Kerry!

Strictly on the basis of party loyalty you're right, of course.

I understand what he was about, though, given that Tim is an "Eisenhower conservative." There's an awful lot about Bush that is anathema to traditional conservatives: his spend-happy fiscal irresponsibility, his warmongering, his really poor diplomacy, his lackluster performance w/r/t protecting the borders against illegal immigrants, his corporate toadying without respect for the nation's real interests. From that perspective Kerry was a long way from perfect, but I can see where he'd be preferable to Bush.

I did it holding my nose - but yes, I did. It was the best decision I knew how to make in terms of strategic thinking.

I was - and am - disgusted by the coopting of conservatism by the Bush administration, which has so much in common with the interventionist Democrats of the 50s and 60s and their ruinous policies.

I disagreed strongly with the war since before it started, BUT I have also been very concerned with the troops and how they have been treated by the left - so it really wouldn't help for me to open my mouth about it.

It was a very difficult decision. I am conservative on almost all issues. But I knew that Bush and his fellow neo-cons would hurt the conservative movement with their huge increases in spending and their vast expansion of government. I think the 2006 election proved that was correct.

I have many friends in Europe and I know what the current administration has done to our standing - and I do NOT mean the stupid anti-Americanism that shows up here and elsewhere. I remember a conversation with a woman who grew up in a divided Berlin with photos of JFK on her bedroom wall. She told me: "Your country has made people dream. Don't let that be destroyed."

And she is NOT anti-American. In fact, quite the opposite. She and her husband even had many good things to say about Reagan.

I know a chaplain who served in Iraq. What he witnessed cannot really be described. He is a very good man and served the troops with the Episcopal church there. He came back somewhat broken and burned out. He is coming back - but I will not forget what I heard from him.

I would not have voted for Kerry if the congress was held by the current far left crowd. That concerns me far more than who is president. A victory for Kerry in 2004 would have meant a divided government - and perhaps we (Republicans) would still hold the congress today.

My choice would be Chuck Hagel - the closest thing we have to a great man today. But he is too good for us.

So those are the reasons, at last in part.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

My friend - I believe McCain is a true conservative. And my main concern, by far, is who runs the congress.

I will get upset if I see Republicans handing Washington over to the left-wing thugs like Pelosi and Reid. That is the bottom of the barrel.

And of course you have every right to do battle with me.

When it comes down to it, we share the same views.

I am simply disgusted with the necon movement. I rarely go into detail about it, but it is true.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

That is generally accurate.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Well, I didn't because I think the option of abstaining is really a coward's way out - that is, unless I would agree not to talk about politics. I would lose the option to speak up and out about politics and the country.

__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1

Fair enough. My vote went the same way as yours and doubtless with about the same level of enthusiasm...

__________________
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

This was just precious
What does that tell you about McSame?

__________________
“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

You voted for Kerry too?!? Oh what a day....