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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008
Tim Tim is offline
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Re: Race shaping up to be a landslide - interactive map

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Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
LOL. Tim, you're just getting frustrated. I think you sense the same thing I do. Only, understandably you don't feel the same way about it.

Yes, he has flaws; yes, he's capable of error. I still think he's going to kick McCain's ass all over the place. That's only partly because of who he is. Mostly, it's because of the times we live in.

We're definitely in a 1932 situation except that the incumbent can't run for reelection. We're in a crisis as a nation. There are so many bad problems looming, we've been heading in the wrong direction for quite a while. People are hurting. People are scared. Naturally, at such a time one looks to a leader who can inspire hope. Just as naturally, there's a tendency to have unrealistic expectations of him. The same thing happened with FDR, who also had flaws and was capable of mistakes (and committed some doozies).

And I'm not saying Obama won't make some doozies of his own. I think he already has, actually, by calling for "clean coal" technology (an oxymoron if there ever was one), plus a few more nitpicky things that I think could be better in his proposals. But he's going to be good for the country all the same, by getting people to work together towards the goal of solving our problems. Something Bush could conceivably have done after 9/11, but didn't.

I don't necessarily think he'll win Texas. I do think Texas will be close and could go either way. I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it, but I wouldn't be surprised if he loses it, either. (Now if he wins Oklahoma or Alabama, I'll be flabbergasted.) And I certainly think he'll win the election.
I do not see any comparisons with 1932, when the unemployment rate was moving towards 30% and the economy was in free fall, having lost almost 30% of its value and still falling.

As for sensing the same thing as you, I am not clear as to what you mean.

He certainly will not bring people together. Quite the opposite. His far left policies, his creepy associations with the radical left, his open contempt for business and his open contempt for those who disagree with him guarantee that he will divide the country even further.

It is a frighthening and exhausting thought
__________________
"Our fears in Banquo
Stick deep; in his royalty of nature
Reigns that which would be fear'd: 'tis much he dares;
And, to that dauntless temper of his mind,
He hath a wisdom that doth guide his valour
To act in safety."

Macbeth 3:1
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2008
TSGracchus TSGracchus is offline
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Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Re: Race shaping up to be a landslide - interactive map

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Originally Posted by Tim View Post
I do not see any comparisons with 1932, when the unemployment rate was moving towards 30% and the economy was in free fall, having lost almost 30% of its value and still falling.
The economy was doing worse, obviously, but the country was at peace and the national debt was much lower. Our industrial infrastructure was far stronger, too, since we had not shipped capacity overseas. Nor did we face any raw materials shortages. There were hideous threats to peace and safety looming, but they were years in the future and few recognized or understood them. The only real problem hurting us was maldistribution of wealth that resulted in slack consumer demand. If wages could be raised, and the economy jump-started, all would be well.

I had some very memorable talks with an old woman a few years ago who lived through the Depression. She pointed out that for most people, FDR's claim in his first inaugural that "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" was very true. The economy was in the toilet and unemployment was horribly high, but the great majority of people still had jobs, and so for most the only problem was the fear that they wouldn't keep them, that they would be next. Today, instead of high unemployment rates, we have sagging real wages and the loss of good jobs which are being replaced by poor ones, a reduction in the quality rather than the quantity of employment. And it is affecting far more people as a percentage of the work force than the Great Depression did, although those unemployed by the Depression were affected more acutely.

Plus, we are not at peace, the federal budget is a fiscal nightmare, we have lost a lot of industrial capacity, and we face resource shortages and environmental disasters that did not loom in 1932. On balance, I'd say we have just as dangerous a situation, if not worse.

Quote:
He certainly will not bring people together. Quite the opposite. His far left policies, his creepy associations with the radical left, his open contempt for business and his open contempt for those who disagree with him guarantee that he will divide the country even further.

It is a frighthening and exhausting thought
But the same could be, and was, said about Roosevelt, who was accused by laissez-faire advocates of being a socialist. And although he certainly wasn't a socialist, he was well to the left of any candidate from either party that had run up to that time.

It's impossible to truly unite the entire country, and Obama won't. But he will, I think, unite the majority of us, leaving out only the economic right, those who continue to believe in Reaganomics and supply-side theory, and those opposed to environmentalism. Since those are exactly the positions that need to be repudiated, failure to bring such people on board is de rigeur and unavoidable. Uniting the rest of the country will suffice, and I believe that much he can do.
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