That's not a good idea either. Ice age? No thanks.

Because it will result in more and stronger hurricanes, disrupt farming that is based around crops dependent on climatic conditions in particular places, lead to droughts and famines, expand the vectors and habitats of climate-dependent diseases, and in a worst-case scenario trigger a mass extinction that might conceivably take us with it.

I would say that this would be a bad move for JM. Treaties almost always hurt the US. Besides whatever is causing GW here on earth is also causing climate change on Jupiter and Mars. What kind of treaty would you propose to help our other planets in the solar system? Can there be a Jupiter tax and Mars Tax too? Maybe we can petition the Sun to quit being so hot so the temp can go back down a whole 1/2 degree.

No this is a stupid move for ANYONE to make. In the longrun environmental solutions will be found in the private sector as it advances in technology naturally. Consumers who are becoming increasingly environmentally concious will demand more from the companies they buy from and eventually get cleaner producs and a cleaner environment.

Signing a treaty would make that VERY difficult to achieve in reality.

But couldn't it offset the cooling that you admit is "not a good idea"?

How do you know whether cooling or warming is better in the first place?

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

"Cap-and-Trade" is bullshit environmental policy, and McCain supporting it shows either his ignorance or ties to those whom will benefit from it. Either way it's another strike against McCain for president.

By most accounts, analysis of "cap-and-trade" policies, result in higher energy costs, with little or no measurable reduction in "global warming." Net effect, we are burdened with paying more money for everything, and won't have anything to show for it.

Beware of Cap and Trade Climate Bills

The Lieberman-Warner Cap and Trade Bill: Quick Summary and Analysis

Secret EPA Analysis Shows Current Clean Air Act Better than Proposed "Cap and Trade" Scheme

I believe Obama is equally ignorant on "cap-and-trade."

That being said, McCain and Obama aren't very different, on the surface, net effect for McCain, IMHO, ZERO. I'll have to see more details.

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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

"An honest man can feel no pleasure in the exercise of power over his fellow citizens."

-Thomas Jefferson

i stitched together several replies which go with a thought so forgive me for not replying singly.

The end of civilization might not be the answer but it is where we are headed. The human population of planet Earth will increase by 50% by 2050 (link). We are experiencing a global water shortage(link). We are experiencing a global food crisis(link).

I think that the world is doing an admirable job working towards dealing with global warming and a host of other issues. If we keep going there will not be enough land, water and food to sustain our population. People are going to die and they are going to die in great numbers because we have, so far, not faced any natural limits on our growth. We have developed the idea that we are above that but we are not. Nature will take measures to limit us and there is not really anything you can do about it. You can simply prepare yourself for the fact that it will happen.

Will humanity die off? No, we will not. We have reached the point where we are pretty much immune to a extinction level event. Of course, that bars such actions as the sun going into a red giant or the Earth getting hit by a massive asteroid. However, we will have to restart. I just hope that those that restart learn from us and don't make the same stupid mistakes again.

Sutanek

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Bravery-Truth-Honor-Fidelity-Discipline-Hospitality-Industriousness-Reliance-Perseverance

People will die because that is their nature. People are mortals.

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Really, I can't see that happening mate-America is still a very right wing country from my perspective, you've still got a very strong evangelical minority, a very strong Libertarian streak and none of the basics needed for a social democracy like Denmark or Britian eg. Welfare state.

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. - Art of War, Sun-Tzu, Chapter 2, Paragraph 6

"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind"-Gandi

It is not that people will die it is the amounts that will die and the effect that will have on human civilzations. It is all good to speak of the economic costs, GDP andgovernment reforms. In the end the cost of everything is measured in human (for us a species anyway) - human lives, human suffering, human ideas and the human spirit. Eventually, it will all be called to task and how we respond will determine what kind of civilization, if any, will survive.

Sutanek

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Do you have any proof that more amounts of people would die?

Or are you just buying the mass hysteria that is being fed to you by so-called "green" coorporations that are trying to sell you higher taxes?

Think about it!

Don't buy it!

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

My statement covered several issues facing humanity in the near future: water, food, warming and population. I stand by the idea that if we don't do some things different then massive amounts of people are going to die. Too many people, not enough water, not enough food, not enough land to live on and the additional problem of global warming (man-made or natural) will result in an accelerated death rate. A simple fact. You can't grow exponentially when your resources are limited and that is just the way it is.

Do you think that resources are infinite?
Do you see any sign of people limiting the birthrate?
Do you see people cutting down on the consumption/pollution of the resources that we have?
Do you think that people faced with starvation, deprivation and death are going to act peacefully?

Sutanek

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Bravery-Truth-Honor-Fidelity-Discipline-Hospitality-Industriousness-Reliance-Perseverance

Well, considering that Obama favors the same sort of policy, not really. The only significant difference between the two candidates on global warming is that Obama favors deeper cuts in emissions sooner than McCain does, which makes him better in my book, but he and McCain would both use cap and trade.

And considering how well that approach worked in solving the problem of acid rain, which is fundamentally similar to greenhouse gases only less widespread, I think you are selling it short too quickly. You mentioned that it is projected to result in "higher energy costs." Have you (or the people you're quoting) factored in the reduced energy consumption and the spur to increased efficiency that would result from higher costs? If we're going to put market forces to work for us in solving our dependency on fossil fuels -- of which global warming is only one consequence, albeit a potentially severe one -- then higher energy prices are exactly what we need.

I'm still waiting for someone to support a carbon tax.

Anyway, on the central issue, both McCain or Obama would be better than Bush on the environment, but neither are going to move as fast as many would like them to.

Do you have any conclusive proof that more carbon will not be a good thing?

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Do you have an conclusive evidence that it will be? Let me ask you a question. Is carbon dioxide toxic to animal life?

Sutanek

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Bravery-Truth-Honor-Fidelity-Discipline-Hospitality-Industriousness-Reliance-Perseverance

Actually dude, I don't believe in the weirdo doomsday cult stuff you are spewing. People have been spewing that crap for hundreds of years.

If people today were actually stupid enough to fall for your idiotic argument they would be killing themselves left and right.

So why are you still here?

Where is your suicide belt that will save us from your paranoia about overpopulation?

Why haven't you gone KABOOM!!!! yet?????????


If you respond then that is proof that you are a hypocrite.

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.