That's the best choice....

It's a total waste of time.

__________________


"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

No, it has it been a resounding success , yet. Just lowering our casualties was never the crux of the plan. May has now been catalogued I believe as the lowest American causality month since we went into Iraq. The plan was to buy breathing space. Get folks to put down the guns and get to the table and build the Iraqi army and police force.

IF we get the numbers we believe we will in the next round of provincial elections, then I would say it has done about all it can do in the way of success, that is creating the atmosphere for political gain as in cohesiveness, rep. government with 3 parties at the table with a bulk of their folks having put them their.

The other aspect is the Iraqi army which we destroyed and dismantled with idiotic abandon. Not one of Bushs finer moments to put it lightly. The re-building and re-constitution of any army is a long, painful process, and add to that, they weren’t exactly efficient when saddam was running the show either, we are working that also.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

If the plan is to buy breathing space, then I think it's probably legitimate to call the surge a success. However, championing such a success, in my opinion, probably shouldn't be used the way it is currently being used. Many people are using these successes to provide legitimacy to the overall effort. If legitimacy is going to be given to the overall effort (i.e. the War in Iraq), we've got to see some progress in the original goals (i.e. vast political gains that mimic a stable sense of democracy in the region), not only in the goals that were concocted specifically for the surge.

I'm not as anti-War as some of my Democratic brethren, but I don't think it's fair to set a specific mission that is merely a tiny subset of a much larger picture, complete that specific mission, and use it to give legitimacy to the big picture. Too many people seem to think that an admittance of success regarding the surge is an automatic admittance of approval of the overall war effort. I think that's a mistake.

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"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised.”
- George Will

The "Surge" was a huge failure. There weren't any more troops in Iraq than there were before; they just restored the level back to 2005 levels. Troops had nothing to do with it. We've got them on a fool's errand, standing around waiting for shit to happen.

The violence has gone down because the Bush people are borrowing tens of millions of dollars a month to pay off the two sides that are fighting the most. Nearly 100,000 Iraqis are being bribed to take our money and just stand there and not do anything violent. As long as we continue to pay them off, we'll see the reduction of violence we've seen these last few months. However, violence spiked upwards for a good month or so earlier this spring, so there's no telling what will happen next.

The calm in Iraq is just the calm before the next storm. We can't pay these people off forever, and the side that is being oppressed is going to get cranky at some point. Or maybe we can just pay them off forever; our leaders are stupid enough, and regular Americans are too lazy to understand that that is why there has been a reduction in violence.

This statement reminds me of a quote a friend brought to my attention:

You can't have had any real military experience to make a statement like you just made.

One sentence alone shows you've lost it. We aren't paying bribes to Islamic terrorists to keep them from attacking us. This is too insane to even attempt to consider.

__________________


"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

How many in the current administration from the President down, had any real military experience? Please don't generalise and apply Emmerson's comment to only "libs". The GOP know all-too-well how to follow that quote also.

You're actually proudly defending ignorance. Hilarious. These guys were paying off don't have to fight in missions they don't want to. Did you know that? Did you know that these guys were fighting in militias that were killing us not so long ago?

What's frightening is that I don't have military experience and am quite able to diagnose every crappy decision we're making over there.

Only Americans will save themselves from their own selves, but who's up to it anymore?

Yup, let's just keep bribing the enemy for the end of time. Great plan.

Usually, if one wishes to be taken seriously, they provide support for their claims. You have not. Please provide a source for your two claims that (1) the surge is a failure and (2) we are paying bribes to folks to keep them from fighting us.

Best of luck.

__________________
I am an American. That's the way most of us put it, just matter of factly. They are plain words, those four: you could write them on your thumbnail, or sweep them clear across this bright autumn sky. But remember too, that they are more than just words. They are a way of life. So whenever you speak them; speak them firmly, speak them proudly, speak them gratefully. I am an American. ...a tradition

I attributed the quote to college students or just graduates in general and a series of comments by a particular poster....you are the one who said I was implying Liberals.



Bush trained in Convair F-102 fixed-wing aircraft,......fighters.

That's not military experience?

I'm afraid your bias just got the best of you.

Flying fast-movers is a heck of a lot more experience then driving a boat down a river in Cambodia.

Now he may not have flown in combat, but the training alone that it takes to become a fighter pilot is much more involved and much more military in nature then you are willing to give him credit for.

Also let's not forget the skill and compitence it takes to complete the training. They don't let someone who is substandard even sit in the cock-pit of fixed wing aircraft. You have to have perfect eyesight, be in great health, and you have to have superior reading and math skills.

Screwups need not apply.

__________________


"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

We don't count then?

__________________
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. - Art of War, Sun-Tzu, Chapter 2, Paragraph 6

"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind"-Gandi

yes, I hear you.

__________________
No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Of course NK counts, but we are more suited to do the job.

This is the point..........

Since you have no military experience you haven't a clue.

You think you do...but you don't.

All you're doing is repeating what you heard.

Too many times what you hear about and what really happened aren't the same.

And Pelosi knows nothing ether.

She's just rationalizing what she thinks is happening.

It would help if the biatch would show up to intel briefings instead of getting her play by play on the war from Time, Newsweek, USA Today, and The New York Times.

It's been reported that since she has been Speaker she hasn't been attending any briefings on the war from military commanders. What kind of a government do we have when they consider the military to be dishonest.......more so then the enemy is......who is the real enemy to them?

__________________


"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

Having one's mind made up seems to be the norm in this thread, on BOTH sides.

The way I see it is, Pelosi has a right to her opinion the same as everyone here. But whether anyone AGREES with it makes it no less than that. Her opinion.
I think by now, everyone on this forum should have realized you can't put any value on what EITHER side says.

__________________
Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Who's fault is that?

Is it the politician who feels he has to lie to get elected or is it the voter who votes for the politician they know is a liar?

__________________


"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel