Hypocritical? Yes, if you tend to apply your personal standards judiciously.

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/McCain_I_Didn_t_Love_America_Until_I_was deprived of her company VIDEO


1) When Michelle Obama said "For the first time in my adult life, I'm proud of my country", the implication (by those pre-disposed to defame her) was that until that moment, she was NOT PROUD of her country.

2) So when McCain said "I really didn't love America until I was deprived of her company", the implication (by those who wish to defame him) would be that until John McCain travelled to Vietnam, he did NOT LOVE his country.


MY characteriztion is that:

- Both quotes, on face value, lend themself to be open to that negative implication.

- That negative implication is easier to make when the quotes are lifted from their context.

- Pushing the negative implication of either quote is unfair and unjust.

- The clear intent of each respective quote was to demonstrate how proud they were of, or how much they loved America. That is a very positive sentiment, despite the poor wording.

- Both Michelle Obama and John McCain deserve the benefit of the doubt by everyone and their words should not be conveniently and disingenuously misinterpreted and used in a smear campaign.



QUESTIONS:
+ Does anyone still think that either Michelle Obama was not proud of her country or that John McCain didn't love his country?

+ Does anyone think that these 2 quotes, and the negative implications that can be made from them, are not equitable for comparison?

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!

Many people don't truly appreciate America until they visit one or more cesspools otherwise known as "foreign countries". McCain's experience is not unique. It is not a function of contempt for America nor does it imply that any existed prior to his revelation. At worst he was neutral on the topic prior to his experience. At worst one can charge him with youthful ignorance, but be wary of casting the first stone.

I had fun in Portugal, Italy, Spain, St. Thomas, St. Croix, Freeport and Nassau Bahamas, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Mexico, Canada, and even got a nice tan in Djibouti (a hell of an accomplishment for a redhead). Fun aside, none of those places even remotely holds a candle to my country and its great experiment. The more I travel, the more I love my country. Since potential love is infinite, I expect this trend to continue.

As for Mrs. Alsoran's comment(s), they definitely imply an actual disgust with the country. Forget about the silliness and apparent selfishness of the comments (all the various civil rights gains made by our free society didn't mean shit until her hubby had a shot at the POTUS?)...the truth is she was likely possessing a similar mindset as the venerable Reverend Wright. I am being generous in assuming the "was" part in the latter statement. Maybe she has arrived at the right conclusion, even if for the wrong reasons. Might be worth applauding her progress. We'll see how she behaves when her man gets spanked in the general election and to what she attributes his forthcoming defeat. Will she love the only country in the world that would even give people like him and Condi Rice a shot at leadership, or will she start channeling Farrakhan again? Wait and see. That will be the true measure.

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

I'd be more inclined to believe that what McCain meant to imply was that he didn't appreciate his country until he was deprived of its' company.

We take an awful lot for granted in this country. While someone can easily love their country, a person may not truly appreciate it until he has something else to compare it with...

I have the same take on McCain's comments... that his love or appreciation for America was always there. But it grew once he went to war and missed home. That is the logical interpretation.

Do you similarly believe that Michelle Obama's intent was to demonstrate that she was always proud of her country. But she became more proud of her country when she personally witnessed the electorate's excitement and concern for the presidential campaign?

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!

No. For the reasons I stated above.

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

Taking something that was said about being a POW, McCain, after being tortured and held against his will for years, talks how he has a new found love of his country is no comparison to a woman who claims for 40 something years of her life has just now become proud of it.

McCain wasn't drafted, he volunteered to fight for his country. That is unconditional love.

Michelle, who has spoken out numerous times against her country throughout her life never found *ONE* time that she was proud of America until her husband is getting support in his run for President? That is not only weak but in the highest disregard for this country.

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My question was posed to Steve because he did not elaborate in that area.


Your comments, however, are clear to me, so I saw no need to ask.....you have excused and defended McCain's comments in the absence of any attack... and you have characterized Michelle Obama as an America hater based on her comments.

It seems you are employing logic in the former case and bias and suspicion in the latter.

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!

This is very true for me, especially more so after my recent visit to China. I've been to Europe, Asia, and the Middle East, and while I enjoyed the experienced, I was always full of joy as the plane landed in New York or California.

Oh, sorry.

No, for the reasons Impugn stated above...

Interesting.... and not surprising that you guys are more able to relate to a white man's perspective than a black woman's.

I don't think you can be faulted for that.

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!

Well, being a white guy, I would think that not only would that not be surprising, but absolutely expected. That you don't "think" I can be faulted for that implies that maybe I can.

That's stupid.

Frankly, I don't really care what Michelle Obama said. She's not running for office. I'm busy enough trying to keep up with all the stupid shit her husband, the actual candidate, says...

Smell the hypocrasy in the air. Watch the media NOT pounce on McCain for this statement. They certainly didn't pounce on him a few weeks ago during a town hall a questioner asked "How can I be proud of my country," McCain's response can be heard here,
YouTube - John McCain: It's tough to be proud of our country. I have no problem with what McCain said and no doubt he and I disagree on why it can be tough to be proud of America. My issue is why are Republicans allowed to talk about the contingencies and problematics of undying, never questioning patriotism and Michelle Obama is called an "America hater" because of her comments? Where is the media frenzy over these comments as well as the one BoyScout has brought out. Shouldn't the "liberal media" be up in arms?

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If you stop trying to bring the Bible into the classroom, I'll stop secretly sneaking biology textbooks into the pews on Saturday nights. Deal?

If the flag is precious to YOU, then don't burn YOURS.

McCain's race is a factor...exactly how?

What McCain experienced transcends race. Mrs. Alsoran stupid comments are based upon nothing but race.

I still remember the "brothers" on the ship getting all hopped up ("Def jam in the Mother Land!") when we were headed to Djibouti. Then they got a look around. Sang a different tune after that (actually, they got quiet as shit for a good while). (Side note...they also found out how much African blacks can't stand American blacks.)

I suspect after seeing what that garden spot - a country wedged between Ethiopia and Somalia - was like, they were glad, secretly and way down inside, that their ancestor(s) were sold into slavery and ended up in America. In any case, they definitely gained some appreciation for these here United States.

Their change of heart was not sourced in selfishness. Mrs. Alsoran's absolutely was.

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"Compassionate Conservatism"?!?! That is a stupid phrase. Conservatism is inherently compassionate. It is liberalism that is cruel for the sake of maintaining a constituency.

so, you're making implications on my quotations? ... well, one certainly can be held at fault for not attempting to understand someone else's perspective in an attempt to be fair. I'm not making that accusation, but it certainly is a possibility.

Good on ya.

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!

No, I think your race might be a factor. Identity politics means you identify with the candidate, cause he's "like me".

I don't know what it's like to be tortured in a P.O.W camp, so I can't accurately judge McCain's experience or honestly suspect that that's the source of his temperment.

Nor can I know what it's like to be a black woman growing up experiencing racial predjudice or judge Mrs. Obama's to honestly suspect that to be a source of her temperment.

I can't really relate to the special life experiences of either of these people. Nor can I judge their patriotism or degree of love for country. If I have to assume, I don't think any candidate or candidates wife would put themselves in the position to be president (or first lady) and commit their lives to public service if they didn't throroughly love their country.


I'm not sure what the moral of this story is. Perhaps you are attempting to demonstrate that you have some kind of telepathic gifting that allows you to gleen the secret thoughts and motives of others. It probably would have been easier to actually speak to and ask those "brothers" what their thoughts were instead of projecting your own thoughts on them.

That might explain your claim of the ability to read Michelle Obama's mind.

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Screw Change!! Let's have a Seamless Transition of Power and Policy.. John McSame in 2008!