Right Wing Media Myth #2: John McCain has Military Experience - Page 8 - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

TheStripey1 · #**106** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

If you want to make a case as being the "goats " or close to it ( a euphemism for those last in their classes at the service academies), I suggest you take a look at whom in the past has been the goat and of course whom has gradated first.

I think you'll find that, there is very little practical difference once the balloon goes up. There have been goats that have gone on to great success and 1st in their classers that have crashed and burned…and vis versa, all in all its a poor metric in this case.

How often are goats given the elite assignment right out of school?

TheStripey1 · #**107** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

so what? as a grunt or a Pogue? this makes a difference as to who we think has more military chops for c in c?

what's a pogue? did you serve impy? have YOU been to war?

TheStripey1 · #**108** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

uh huh, but we KNOW where you stand and we do know where he stands, and I have already stated like 40 fucking times, he’s got no higher command experience BUT the issue here is, we are better off with a 47 year old wide eyed wonder with ZERO?

and of course your soooo non partisan....drop the cross please.

cram your cross...

TheStripey1 · #**109** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

He recieved a Bronze Star and a Navy Commendation Medal for his missions.

link to the actual wording on the commendations, please.

ThorHammer · #**110** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStripey1

Most pilots are grounded when they lose aircraft even when it isn't their fault... a pilot with four star admirals as father and grandfather, was not... do you see any preferential treatment here?

I do.

They are grounded until they determine what happened. If it is found that the pilot wasn't at fault, then he is returned to flight status immediately. That is now anyways. I have no idea what SOP was back in the 60s.

TheStripey1 · #**111** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

not true- there are investigations after every crash, if hes culpable, he should be grounded and re certified, if not, hes not.

You are determined to make him a scape goat dude your bias is now overwhelming ………take a breather…

I don't think he is qualified to be commander in chief based on his military experience. That's my point.

TheStripey1 · #**112** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

we're down to questioning the viability of giving an award to a 5 1/2 pow ...this dudes whacked.....

Are you insulting me? sure sounds like it... are the mods here exempt from obeying the same rules everyone else has to observe?

ThorHammer · #**113** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheStripey1

link to the actual wording on the commendations, please.

Here is an excerpt from his Distinguished Flying Cross citation

Quote:

"Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target."

Trying to find more.

TheStripey1 · #**114** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

we're down to questioning the viability of giving an award to a 5 1/2 pow ...this dudes whacked.....

why not, right wing whackoes questioned John Kerry's medals... why do you think we left wingers should not do the same to McCain? because it's your guy under the microscope this time around?

Tough.

Quote:

Are McCain's handlers playing the wrong card?
By David H. Hackworth
January 25, 2000

John McCain is being hailed by the press as a "genuine war hero." But is he a war hero in the conventional sense like Audie Murphy and John Glenn?
Or is his "war hero" status the creation of a very slick publicity campaign that plays on flag, duty, honor and country?

For sure, McCain has the fruitsalad a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.

..snip

McCain's valor awards are based on what happened in 1967, when during his 23d mission over Vietnam, he was shot down, seriously injured, captured and then spent 5 1/2 brutal years as a POW.

...snip

None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours. Two Naval officers described the awards as "boilerplate" and "part of an SOP medal package given to repatriated (Vietnamera) POWs."

McCain's Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 the day after he was shot down to 8 December 1968 reads: "His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese.

Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

...snip

Yet McCain's conduct while a POW negates these glowing comments. The facts are that he signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement.

..snip

McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card.

David H. Hackworth died in June 2005, he was a much-decorated and highly unconventional former career Army officer who became a combat legend in Vietnam. Col. Hackworth received 78 combat awards — including a Distinguished Service Cross, a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and eight Purple Hearts — during his 25-year military career which spanned the Korean and Vietnam wars..

TheStripey1 · #**115** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imperator

dan rathers got an old navy document I bet............

to requote cheney:

So?

TheStripey1 · #**116** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

He flew 23 missions over North Vietnam before being shot down. That means he flew into combat 23 times against well defended positions. Also, given the nature of where Yankee Station is located, I doubt the 20 hour figure.

take it up with Colonel Hackworth as it was he I was quoting...

good luck on that tho... he's been dead for 3 years.

TheStripey1 · #**117** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

Cool man. Have fun with your mom. Catch ya later.

I did, thanks...

TheStripey1 · #**118** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by CYDdharta

You're right. There isn't as much as half a degree of separation between the Iranians training al Qaeda and the Iranians training Hezbollah to train al Qaeda, but I did say almost.

Do you honestly believe the Iranians are training Sunnis to kill Shias?

TheStripey1 · #**119** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThorHammer

Ummm, he commanded an attack squadron after he was released by North Vietnam. He also led flights from his squadron on raids into North Vietnam before he was shot down. So to say that he has no military leadership experience, even combat experience, is totally false.

He, obviously, has plenty of military (and combat) leadership experience.

Link? you continually make pro-McCain statements but continually fail to supply links for them... why?

TheStripey1 · #**120** (**permalink**) 06-25-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jviehe

What do they call the guy who graduates last in his medical school class?

Doctor. Are you ready to assume that since he was fourth in his class he is somehow less of a naval cadet than anyone else?

Fourth from the bottom... or fifth, whatever...

I would call him Ensign McCain and assign him to a supply depot or a destroyer... I would not give him the best job in the navy... jet fighter pilot...

would you want that doctor who finished last in his class to perform a liver transplant on you right out of med school?

View Poll Results: Does John McCain have Military Leadership experience?
Yes	21	58.33%
No	15	41.67%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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