if you separate promises from policies you're right.

BHO would not be able to deliver on all his vote buying promises any more than could McC but I believe McC when he says he does not want more taxes and I also believe BHO when he says he does. One example among many.

Nonsense. I just wrote a post the other day chuckling about Obama's lame excuse for his taking the private funding. It's obvious why he did it. I used to have the biggest scraps with Sheriff over his partisan posts when I asked him early about when Obama was going to get past his 'hope and change' rhetoric and explain his actual positions. I've written plenty of objections/concerns I have with his positions (capital gains, concealed carry, etc). And I've defended McCain where I felt it necessary too from smears and/or where I felt he has a good idea. I've written plenty on policy discussion about who he ought to pick as VP, etc.

And as for voting, I just got finished last week meeting with my local US Congressman, a Republican, who barring a calamitous development is surely going to get my vote as a result of adequately doing his job. And that, LS, is what I am concerned with.

I've split my ticket for as long as I can remember. I take the Gordon Gekko approach to politicians--you either get it right, or you get eliminated. I really don't care about any party labels. Both have sent me candidates ready willing and able to help or set back me and/or this nation. I have no family history with parties here and my views are mixed enough that I have enough to like and dislike about any candidate in either of the parties.

Where you are coming from is my recent posts with you over these smears. I think they are horrible on several fronts and will say my piece on them.

First, if successful, they will set back race relations.

Second, they fuel the pointy head and Archie Bunkers who need to disappear into history rather than revive themselves.

Third, I think it is terrible policy for the GOP because it typecasts them as pointy heads and Bunkers even against the innocent who aren't such.

Fourth, it encourages the GOP to skip real policy discussions and win races on the cheap with bigotry and keep it alive for political expediency.

Fifth, it makes our nation look backward and evil and injures its image and leadership ability.

Sixth, it allows the very kinds of bigoted morons to get their way because the GOP will need to cater to their ways to keep them on board.

The reason you may see me write more on this stuff is because lately I'm sick and tired of the stupid threads and posts on Obama and so few genuine policy threads on him. I prefer a truly competitive campaign of ideas, and not a stunt.

The last election was won largely on bashing gays and I got stuck with Bush who has violated GOP principles--never mind everyone else's--across the board along with general incompetence. He got into office from the git-go by knocking out McCain with racist push polls defaming him as having had an illegitimate daughter with a black woman (he adopted a Philippino girl) to get out the bigot vote. I'll be damned to see McCain, who I defended then, in reverse slink by now with racist shit of anti-Obama people without affirming to me that he is competent. I'm not saying he authorises it, but he shouldn't win on bigotry anymore than he should have previously lost on that.

Many things I do like about Obama--it was about time he started discussing his views in more detail. Had he done that earlier, he may have gotten my primary vote. The way I see it, he didn't have to do it because he was winning anyway. Politically that was smart, but I can't reward that. I want to know what a politician intends to do and examine it.

The same holds true with McCain. What I am not seeing--but am waiting for--is more from McCain to give me a reason to vote for him instead. If he can make his case for me, and I'm waiting for it, he has the same kind of chance to get my vote. He's wasted incredible opportunities to do so. In the vacuum, I'm seeing alot of ugly stuff, like these smears. And just like I held it against Obama earlier, I will hold it against McCain for being so quiet on his real policies (and not concerning fake ones like "I am now for the tax cuts when I was against them earlier (but knowing full well they are going to expire anyway *wink-wink*)" or making them so confusing that I can't tell exactly where he stands.

It's a long time until November for everyone to make their case. If you want a better discussion, elevate it. Stay away from the smear trash and let's discuss real issues.

__________________

More Obama whining.

His comments are far from starting a race war. Of course, radical right-wingers will promote the idea that America will erupt tomorrow.

Frankly, given the propensity of many right-wing idiots to refer to him as "B. Hussein Obama", I have to wonder why those on the right are offended when he makes these kinds of remarks...

Really?
How do you breathe inside that bubble?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/us...=1&oref=slogin
Firedoglake » Swift Boat Funder T. Boone Pickens Reneges On John Kerry Million Dollar Offer
Veterans Who Served With Kerry Take On Swift Boat Lies - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought
Kerry Takes One Million Dollar Challenge From T. Boone Pickens on Swift Boat Lies - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought

and this just out today
T. Boone Pickens set to respond in veterans' swift boat challenge | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | National Politics

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

225 Vietnam veterans who were no where near the incidents and had no direct knowledge vs the word of all the people who were actually present.

WoW, what a dilemma

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

So, still not one shred of proof in any of those links. Your tactic is to come to a thread and excrete a hot steaming pile of garbage. I can play that too - Here's a bunch of links.
Bullcrap.com
www.kerryisaloser.com
www.jfkerrylied.com
www.kerrytookacameratonam.com
www.kerryfakedhisinjuries.com
www.poopsmellslikejfkerry.com

and this one I just made up!!
www.guysnamedboogerarebuggerers.com

I win. I posted more links!!!

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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

Not to throw a damper on the this, but the thread is about Obama an racism. Please stick to the topic. If you want to comment further on the Swift Boat controversy, please start a new thread or reopen one of the many old threads. Thanx in advance.

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“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Lord Palmerston

whatever, you brought it up, not me. I just get tired of people who never read the book using the term "swift boated" as a pejorative verb.

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I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

I don't see any difference between promises and policies when they are stated before you get elected. Both are subject to change.

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Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

I'm afraid that Obama is promoting it more then anyone.



I think you're confused with what the Democrats said about Mr. Obama....not what the Repugs said about him. You want to ignore what the Dems said about him and only focus on what little the Repugs have said.


This is the quote the media used to claim Clinton was being racist. All he was saying is Obama's rhetoric and his candidacy is just a fairy tale. Reality is not a part of the Obama campaign.

Obama must have a split personality. Obama claimed that Hillary's policies and Bush policies are the same but said in 2004 that his own beliefs mirrored Bush. When you look at it closely you can understand why their is so much confusion. I think Obama sometimes goes off script and starts putting his own thoughts out there and then the next several days has to be spent cleaning up his comments.

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It's hard to stay mad at someone who makes you laugh - Jay Leno

Everybody focuses on the Archie Bunker stereotypes and forgets about a growing group of Meatheads like this guy:

YouTube - re: racist black man


These people are going to be a real problem in the future. It is a growing problem not in decline like the pointy-headed Archie Bunkers are now.

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It's hard to stay mad at someone who makes you laugh - Jay Leno

Yet another "Bullshit Indecision 2008" thread.

People like Mudwhistle were the first one's to go batshit over Obama's middle name, which is Hussein. They were the one's so zealously attacking him for being a muslim, which he isn't. And when Obama responds to defend himself? Of course, according to simple-minded Americans who've been made stupid by their two-party system and lazy media, they accuse the guy of starting a race-war.

Why is America, based on this entire forum, getting stupider by the day? A two-party system that has turned citizens against each other while special interests run away with all the profits.

What a stupid thread. "Thumbs Way, Way Down!"

We can do better than this.

I commented on the one remark referred to in this post, excuse me for being on topic. And excuse you for not seeing the sarcasm in that one remark.

Are you still riled up about his "typical white person" remark about his grandmother? Please, are you really that obtuse? Or do you fit his stereotype?

Care to share his other "radical racial" remarks? Or are you just going to paint him with a broad brush of ancillary associations with others, as Mudwhistle (self-proclaimed expert on race relations) to aptly did?

Have you heard of, or read Charles Murray's The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life?

Here are some links which, may, or may not, be of interest:

NEW ACLU REPORT DETAILS PERVASIVE RACIAL DISCRIMINATION IN AMERICA AND FLORIDA

Hearts and Minds

History must inform the racial debate

And I really recommend getting to know Barak Obama a whole lot better than you have thus far.

Barak Obama

I assure you he has already done more for this country, than I, or you, ever will.

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"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

Running to the front with a bayonet, is only going to get people killed. We have to change their reality, not discount it. Oh yea, you don't think there's a white-black race problem, only a black-white race problem. My bad...

__________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

Oh, dear.

A search of mudwhistle's posts indicates that he has only used the word "Hussein" when discussing Iraq's former leader.

The only mention "Husseain" in the context of Obama's middle name in any of mudwhistle's posts occurs in quotes of other posters.

I do believe you owe the man an apology for your false claim.

Matt