Same argument applies to strictly enforcing the immigration laws. Nobody is going to pick the strawberries for next to nothing except illegal immigrants. That's the real reason why we have so many of them.

Declaring victory. When one is engaged in a rational debate with someone who obviously has no ammunition, continuing to shoot isn't sporting. Besides, the idea that we shouldn't have any labor laws is so far out there that arguing against it isn't necessary; that idea has zero chance of seeing reality in policy. So why worry about it?

It would appear as though he's just reigning in the obvious. Einstein said it best: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Expecting "different results" from you is foolish. It doesn't matter how often or how clearly it's shown that you're wrong, you never sway. As a consequence, people would much prefer to just walk away from you and your idiotic arguments than to continue to engage you in debate...

Indeed. Given that my position is rational, having him introduce his irrational position against mine is unlikely to yield a victory for him, no matter how much he tries.In this case, the amount is 0. So how do you know it doesn't matter?

Giving up does not equal victory. Sorry.Unfortunately for you, the rational position is mine.Who says any of our arguments here will have any effect on anything? I'm arguing for fun, and it certainly is more fun being right and rational (that would be me). I don't expect any of my rational ideas to be accepted by the retarded American masses (that would be the vast majority of Americans). Are you only arguing ideas that you genuinely feel you can substantially influence through your arguments here?

You know, one common charateristic of the insane is that they don't realize that they're wrong. Perhaps TSGracchus sees that characteristic in you, and decided to simply walk away?

Perhaps your completely baseless opinion of my is no substitute for a substantiated argument. Perhaps? No. Definitely.

Nice grammar.

The only person here who doesn't see how wrong you are, on almost every issue, is you.

The insane and the psychotic often possess that same trait...

That's what every ideologue says. I'll even give it to you: strictly speaking, holding to a set of assumptions regardless of troubling facts is more "rational," in the sense of rationalism versus empiricism. I'm just saying empiricism produces the best results, and is more "rational" in the looser sense of being more realistic.

What exactly am I giving up on? Persuading you to take a look at reality and see that your ideas have no sense? I see no realistic hope of accomplishing that, so yeah, I guess I'm giving up on doing so. But -- persuading anyone else that you're wrong? It's obvious that you're wrong, and I doubt there's anyone here but you that doubts it. So there's no need to argue there. And in that sense, I'm declaring victory.

If it's a victory to sit on your ass while your opponent shoots himself, that is. Maybe, technically speaking, it's really not. But I'll take it.

Oh, they will. They can directly impact the way the participants here vote, and they can give us ideas for use in other discussions, including participation in major political campaigns, which in fact I do.

Not sure what that sentence means. I only argue ideas that I think have practical value, and that I believe there's any realistic hope of someday becoming law or custom. There's a reason why the idea of abandoning all labor laws, and pretending that a person taking a job instead of seeing his children starve is engaging in "voluntary negotiation" so that increased "freedom" on his part to accept a humiliating, life-threatening, and sub-survival-wage position is actually a gain not a loss, is accepted by hardly anyone. It's not because the American people are stupid, it's because that idea is stupid. And anyone who is so divorced from reality that they can't see that, is someone who isn't worth arguing with about it.

So like I said, enjoy your stay in cloud-cuckoo land. If, despite your residence there, you hold a job here, then the laws you decry will protect you, too, and I am happy to reflect on that as I shake my head in bewilderment at the bizarre meanderings of the human mind . . .

[QUOTE=TSGracchus;1245763]Same argument applies to strictly enforcing the immigration laws. Nobody is going to pick the strawberries for next to nothing except illegal immigrants. That's the real reason why we have so many of them.


Exactly. You agrue for illegal imigration so we can have someone pick the strawberries for next to nothing, but you also agrue for a path to citizensip. IF the Illegals become citizens then they will ask for the minimum wage, therefore no one to pick the strawberries for next to nothing.
So which do want? Illegals to do "the diry work Legal Americans won't do" or a path to citizenship, in which case American's will have to do the dirty work, but will get paid a "fair" wage?
If the latter is the case, why not just "get rid" of the illegals now?

Well, fuck it then; No strawberries...

Um, you might want to take another look at that. Obama correctly said he was a state senator from Illinois. He is currently a U.S. senator from Illinois. He was referring to his time in the Illinois legislature.

__________________
"Inflation is the opium of the masses." - Henry Hazlitt

Actually, there's nothing of value being added by debate with you. I'm enjoying spirited discourse with others.

Ergo, if you leave, your problem is solved...

The difference being that I am putting forth an actual argument.I'm still waiting for an argument from you.Sorry, but you assumptions regarding everyone else do not make for an argument, much less a victory. Instead of posting this crap here, why not actually come up with an argument? Oh right, you're above that. Oh, please! I doubt there are very many people who changed the way the vote, not to mention that this is a fairly small group of people altogether.When the legal system is, for the most part, irrational, the rational ideas sometimes have little, if any, hope of becoming law. While you may feel the way you do, I don't want to sacrifice my rationality in order to debate something I don't believe, even if others are irrational.The problem, of course, is that he chose to have children he could not afford. This mindset is part of the "right to work" (read: privilege to force terms on employers) idea. Perhaps some competition will get them to reconsider their careless behavior.

I'm adding quite a bit. Look at my previous post, for example. So why are you trolling, Steve?

This discussion of illegal immigrants and driver's licenses should be a direct indictment of the immigration policy in this country. There's no denying that illegal immigrants have broken the law in this country by their very act of entering and staying. The problem is that they can't obtain something like a driver's license because of their illegal status even if they want to. If the only problem people have with illegal immigrants is that they are here illegally, then perhaps we should create more opportunities for people to enter this country the legal way.

Why mandate that people "stand in a line" or "wait their turn" when they would make fine citizens or legal residents right now? There are millions of illegal immigrants in this country who have done nothing wrong except enter here illegally. These people would go through the normal process of integrating into our society and obtain things like driver's licenses, but they remain underground because of their illegal status. Creating more opportunities for legal immigration and speeding up the process would go a long way in reducing the problems associated with immigration.

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"Inflation is the opium of the masses." - Henry Hazlitt