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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008
Jason Marcel's Avatar
Jason Marcel Jason Marcel is offline
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Re: Campaign Mudslinging in Perspective

I agree, negative works. Or it usually always works. In polls, people always say otherwise, but of course that's because they want to seem fair and good.

It's like people who say they hate the paparazzi and all that, but then buy the gossip rags at the grocery store.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008
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Jason Marcel Jason Marcel is offline
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MovieJay

 
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Re: Campaign Mudslinging in Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
imho its because the folks will put with only so much negativity and when they see what appears to be an unfair fight, they respond and it rebounds.
Like to or not as we are talking partisan sides here, after a while bush was seen as something of a sympathetic figure, after the october arms bunker story and most especially Rathers story. They saw the media piling on and I am SURE this cost Kerry many votes.

In almost exactly the same fashion as the republicans played the game with Clinton, they like the dems didn't realize there is a boundary to this. They crossed it. Clinton by all accounts was a scoundrel, sure, but impeachment and the like was a bridge to far, they saw that as too much angst and Clinton wound up being the sympathetic figure.

The electorate by and large, especially the real swing voters have a sense of fair play.

And that brings me to Obama. I think his constant campaign of attempting to inoculate himself against any and almost all critique because of his unique status is going to back fire. And for the same reasons I stipulated above, but reversed, he will be so far above critique and negative media coverage those same folks will get the idea that, all fairs only when it comes to one side and his being above the fray and he is somehow “special”, folks don’t cotton to untouchables.

The dem 527’s are going to go after McCain, the rep. 527s are going to go after Obama, that’s a given and alls fair, BUT where in Obama is attempting to put himself out of range, or above the fray he may put himself to far out of range.

The money obama has plus the dem 527 will assure there will be a huge disparity in ads, propaganda etc. unlike anything we have ever seen before.

Eventually, this will wear, that sense of fair play will rekindle and even though Obama deserves by virtue of his ability to raise more cash than McCain to submerge him in ads placed etc. the under dog status and what may appear to be bullying coupled with overwhelming positive media coverage will turn folks off. The longer the campaign goes on the less special Obama will appear and this inoculated status he is inventing will wear thin.
Yeah, Obama has tons more cash, but historically, the Republican attack machine far more effective at pouncing on Democrats then the other way around. Bush got away with draft-dodging while Kerry was a legitimate war hero. How do I know he was a war hero? Because if he was anybody's dad, you'd be really proud of this guy who led that mission and went back to save the other guy under enemy fire. But in the last election, the 527 ads practically made it like John Kerry wasn't even there that day. And the public basically bought into it.

It could have been that Kerry hadn't already established a friendly persona with people yet.

It's a funny thing that way in America. If people warm to you, they get offended when others attack you for simply being you. I don't think Obama has every tried to innoculate himself because of his "special status". He has been innoculating himself from partisan hackery by trying to find the centre on some issues where some Dems would like him to be more left though.

What the Republicans didn't understand about Clinton is that the more they smeared him, the more the public sympathized with him. And when they finally thought they had knocked him off, that video testimony came out that late August and we heard the rapid succession of questions about cigars and fellatio from behind the camera and we looked at Clinton's open face and immediately sided with him because we understood he was a rogue, but wasn't trying to screw the public over. There was a difference there.

And I think Obama shares that quality. The more the Republicans try to pass off that Obama is a muslim, isn't patriotic because he doesn't constantly wear a flag pin(which is about the least patriotic thing you could do) and all that other crap, the more they will fail.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008
TSGracchus TSGracchus is offline
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Re: Campaign Mudslinging in Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Marcel View Post
But in the last election, the 527 ads practically made it like John Kerry wasn't even there that day. And the public basically bought into it.

It could have been that Kerry hadn't already established a friendly persona with people yet.
I think that attack worked for a combination of personal and policy reasons. The personal reason is that Kerry just isn't especially likable. You can admire him for what he did during the war, both his heroic service and his opposition to the war afterwards, but it's hard to empathize with him the way you could with Clinton (or Reagan).

The policy reason, once again, is that there just wasn't much daylight between his proposals and Bush's. This is the consequence of the DLC takeover of the Democratic Party. Since Clinton's victory, and until this year, the Democrats have been a corporatist party virtually indistinguishable from the Republicans except on social issues. Choosing between one bought-and-paid-for corporate shill and another -- on what basis do you do that? If you really care about gay rights or abortion, if it's a hot-button issue for you, then you have an easy choice, but for most people that's not the case. So what's left? Personality, and that's where the smears come in.

Clinton won on personality, too. But he's charismatic enough that that was a decisive advantage. Kerry isn't. Obama probably is, but in this case there are also important issues in play, because he's not a DLC Democrat.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008
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Jason Marcel Jason Marcel is offline
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MovieJay

 
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Re: Campaign Mudslinging in Perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSGracchus View Post
I think that attack worked for a combination of personal and policy reasons. The personal reason is that Kerry just isn't especially likable. You can admire him for what he did during the war, both his heroic service and his opposition to the war afterwards, but it's hard to empathize with him the way you could with Clinton (or Reagan).

The policy reason, once again, is that there just wasn't much daylight between his proposals and Bush's. This is the consequence of the DLC takeover of the Democratic Party. Since Clinton's victory, and until this year, the Democrats have been a corporatist party virtually indistinguishable from the Republicans except on social issues. Choosing between one bought-and-paid-for corporate shill and another -- on what basis do you do that? If you really care about gay rights or abortion, if it's a hot-button issue for you, then you have an easy choice, but for most people that's not the case. So what's left? Personality, and that's where the smears come in.

Clinton won on personality, too. But he's charismatic enough that that was a decisive advantage. Kerry isn't. Obama probably is, but in this case there are also important issues in play, because he's not a DLC Democrat.
I don't think it's so much about the DLC taking over the Dem Party, although all those points are fair and good.

It has everything to do with the magical wow. That sounds too hippie I know, but there's a feeling people get about you when you walk into a room, and they either want to get closer to you, or they don't.

It doesn't have to make any rational sense, and Obama has it. Image is one thing, and energy helps, too. The debates in the fall will be compared to 1960 as we cut from a dashing young man who makes people feel, to an older and stiffer guy with an insincere smile who says "my friends" far too much. Knowing this much in advance, you'd think the McCain people would retool things and let McCain go out there untethered so he could be his charismatic self again. Because he used to light up a room just fine before he got overhandled.
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