I know that the constant stream of "I hate Obama" and "I hate McCain" threads is really exciting and interesting, but I thought I'd try something new anyway.

I was listening to NPR during my commute yesterday morning, and they were talking about the candidates and energy policy. One thing that they mentioned was that McCain supports eliminating the tariff put on ethanol produced in Brazil (from sugar cane, not corn - much more efficient). After thinking about it for a moment, I realized that this is a position with which I can agree. Who knows, maybe there's other positions on the other side with which I can agree?

So, this thread is dedicated to taking the policies and positions of the candidate that you are least likely to vote for, and finding something in there that you can agree with. If nothing else, we can learn about the other side. At best, maybe we can find some common ground, which is something that the USA could really use ATM.

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When they come a wull staun ma groon
Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

I love these kinds of threads, they always attract the moderates.

I'm probably going to go with a third party if I don't write Ron Paul in, so here's some favorability on both nominees:

I like McCain's immigration plan the best. He has the good sense to understand that it's in the best interest of the country to start collecting tax revenue from the over 12 million illegals that are already here, working their asses off at the jobs nobody else wants. And he's taken the hint about border security and pledges to work on that too, although both candidates are still vague as to how they would secure it better than building a 700 mile fence on the 2000 mile border.

The idea of just trying to round them all up would never work. It's way too expensive, you'll never find them all, and you'll detain innocent people through profiling, which is of no help either.

There are components to McCain's energy plan that I like, like the sugar cane idea, but cap n trade or voluntary standards set by the big polluters is a deal-breaker for me.

With Obama, his editorial in the New York Times the other day spelled out what he wants to do in Iraq, which is much clearer than anything McCain has brought forward so far, and it jives with the sentiments of the Iraqi gov't right now. Maliki is under pressure from the citizens of all factions to tell the Americans thanks, but no thanks, it's time to leave now. As I write this, the "Surge" has just been completed, with the last of the 5 additional brigades now gone. The military is now beginning a 45-day post-Surge evaluation, and if things stay like they are, it's expected that the Generals on the ground will recommend in September the additional removal of more brigades. Maliki and Bush are now hashing out a deal they're calling a "bridge" since they don't want to have to go the UN this December to ask them for one more year of US presence in Iraq. And the deal so far has seen Bush have to give up on pretty much everything, from having 200 military bases in Iraq to 58, with the private contractors no longer facing immunity if they go on any other shooting sprees, and with a timetable for withdrawal that is the stickiest part of the deal for Bush, who is apparently wanting to call that something else instead. The Iraqis were pressured by Washington to go ahead with local elections this October, but it looks like they'll have them next spring, and the pressure is on in Iraq from all sides to have a plan in place already that sees the United States withdraw most of it's forces by the summer of 2010.

That coincides with Obama's 16-month plan there.

It's curious to me why Bush doesn't just talk about this now and give McCain some momentum by declaring victory once more, while giving McCain a good deal of credit for his support of the "surge", because no matter the rhetoric this summer, it will begin to change in Washington after mid-September, assuming that violence stays where it is now in Iraq.

So there you have it. One guy is stronger on foreign policy than you'd think, and the other guy isn't such a loser when it comes to domestic affairs.

C'mon, lets cut the "jobs nobody else wants" bullshit. I will agree that some jobs would quailfy for that status, but are the illegals building an addition on the bank in my community doing jobs that no one else will take? I see Americans doing jobs that illegals also show up to from framing houses to roofing to lawn care.
If either candidate really wanted to control the boder, he would do it thru super stiff penalties for those who employ illegals. Would you employ them if it was a felony? Would you employ them if you could lose your business license? While this is the only effective, cost efficient way to throw the brakes on illegal immigration, you'll not hear either candidate even come close to suggesting such.
Obama wants to take away advantages for companies to move operations overseas, yet has suggested nothing about taking away advantages for employers to hire illegals here at home, but then neither has McCain.

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I think BHO is correct that parents must assume responsibility of their children if there is to be improvement in education.

I wish he had avoided overstating the teacher's role on this but I appreciate that they were the choir he was preaching to at the time.

Credit where credit is due.

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Hope is the opposite of audacity. It's passive, an excuse for inaction.

Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

To a large extent we are. All these raid we hear about are illegals with fake papers and its these papers that are getting them shown the door, not the fact that they are here illegally.

Government did make it much more difficult to pay people under the table but that just ginned up a fake papers industry as the validation process was left rather flimsy. They also blocked SSA and IRS form comparing notes on SSNs being fed tax money. Some places had dozens of illegals all with the same SSN on their papers.

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Hope is the opposite of audacity. It's passive, an excuse for inaction.

Socialism doesn't create a rising tide that lifts all boats. It drains the lake and teaches the boat riders not to help themselves by rowing.

“What's the difference between Sarah Palin and Barack Obama?”

“One is a well turned-out, good-looking, and let's be honest, pretty sexy piece of eye-candy.

“The other kills her own food.”

=> I agree with McCain on lifting the import tarriff on ethanol.

=> I agree with McCain that offshore drilling areas that are currently restricted by a federal ban should be left to each costal state to decide what to do with them.

=> I agree with McCain that energy innovation incentives are a good idea... such as the prize for developing a better car battery, etc. Not only do they create a competition that drives research and development, they get press, and give notoriety.



There are not too many other things on which I find common ideological ground with McCain. Some of the details, I agree with... but many of McCain's details are contradicted by the respective overarching policies.

I find the opposite is true with Obama... I can see some particular details I disagree with, but agree almost overwhelmingly with his overarching policies.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

I agree with Obama that black men need to step up and start acting like men and fathers.

I also agree that America deserves a black President, just not Obama.

You can go to any Car Loan/Pawn Shop or the PayDay loan anywhere here in Atlanta and buy whatever documents needed to get a SS, DL and fake proof of address.

I feel sorry for those who are legal Americans that have some illegal working under your SS number and getting a W1099 that is never filed and then you must try to explain to the IRS where is other income came from.

Go to any big city in America; now, go on one of the busier streets that leads back and forth to downtown. Go there later on in the evening. Whose on the bus? A bunch of people going into downtown to clean the buildings and the toilets and everything else we don't want to do.

And they're working on farms everywhere to. Small farms and corporate farms. Because they know how to work in fields very well. I don't think corporations should get subsidies anyway. I say that the one's who are here should be taxed like everyone else, but that would require that they get paid a fair wage, which America doesn't want to give in on either. So American policy is doing it to itself by encouraging cheap labor.

It's the new American way anyway, I really don't know why so many hardcore conservatives get their panties all in a twist about it anyway. With a shrinking middle class in America and with 1 or 2% of the people who are conrolling much of everything, it's to be expected that people want their goods for cheaper and this is part of that.

If you want to discourage illegals from working here, I agree, come down on the corporations, but with lobbyists running amok in Washington and no political will to enforce it, and with the costs of trying to enforce it, better to get these people on the payroll and have them pay taxes.

I like Obama's stance on parental responsibility. I do not like him being against off-shore drilling, nuclear power & clean coal technology.

McCain--I like his policy on immigration & taxes.

That's a funny statement. I like what he said about "we have enough Baby Daddy's.....we need some Fathers!".

But I don't think America deserves a black President or a white President or a yellow President. America deserves to pick the smartest President, no matter the color; but now it's kind of become Survivor President. Whoever can stick it out the best through all the mud and maggots that get thrown at them will win!

Colin Powell would have been a good President. David Gergen, too. I love that guy. He worked for like 5 different Presidents and he's about as levelheaded a person you would want to be President.

(1) Isn't that race neutral? Why the emphasis on black men?

(2) Why does the US "deserve" a black President? Surely you deserve the best President, regardless of things like race?

For those of us who don't think like we're told to, there is no 'other side.' Most policy issues have too many aspects to be black and white, or left and right, or sometimes even right and wrong. That said, among the 2 most likely candidates, I lean more towards McCain, so for discussion purposes, I'll consider Obama to be 'the other side.'

- He caught flak for, and I've caught flak for repeating and agreeing with 'higher gas prices are a good thing, tho it would have been better if they hadn't gone up so fast' or something to that effect.

I think that's the only thing he's said that both he and I agree with. I agree with A Lot of what he says, but most of what he says is not what he really stands for. 'America needs a change' - true, but he's a lying politician, so how is that changing things? 'Blacks should take more responsibility' - true, but that would undercut a significant Democrat voting block, so I doubt he'll be doing anything about that either. 'Hope, change, etc' - all good things, but he'll just bring us more politics as usual.

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Today's forecast: Government corruption.

Tomorrow's forecast: 100% chance of more 'politics as usual'

Maybe it's finally time to vote Libertarian

I cannot say- I ahve no diea wqhere some candidates rtrulyy standon som fo thissues as they have flipped and flopped.

This requires stretching credulity to an extent I cannot get on board with, obama has been one thing and is remaking himself as something totally and completely antithetical to his past, in almost every way, yes people change but they don't change several major and here to fore bedrock platforms. They act as the chameleon, the old color waiting to reassert itself. I cannot believe him, I just cannot.

A few;
Guns- now he has a con position ala belief in the second amendment
The war-, Christ I cannot figure it out, he all over the place but the immediate withdrawal appears off the table now, a clear change. He vehemently opposed the surge. He now appears to take the McCain position.
Abortion- he now appears to sppt partial birth abortion a change to a con position.
Trade- again who knows what his plans are, he has backed out and over several previous declarative statements on such.
Foreign affairs- he will go see Ahmadinejad but won’t help Uribe....unreal.



McCain really pissed me off when he changed his torture stance, NOT because I disagree with his new position, BUT because he flipped on that, a platform he fought for tooth and nail her to fore.
Immigration- he now wants to take care of the border first, not quite what he espoused last year.
His ‘message’ sux- I have not the foggiest idea where he stands on the economy, his has not been making statements that appear to declare positions as Obama has whether you agree with them or not.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

That's easy for you to say.

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