Oh horseshit.

You only label it as an excuse because it's a point that's impossible for you to argue with. Obama has far, far less experience than McCain.

That's not an "excuse", that's a fact that cannot be argued with.

Only libs, who are pathetically incapable of offering things of substance in support of their candidate, view it as an "excuse"...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

So the debate has shifted from "he's done absolutely nothing" to "My grandma can write and co-sponsor and pass a senate bill." ?

I have no problem with people attempting to diminishing Obama's legislative record, but I do when people are people denying or distorting it.

It seems like we're slowly getting somewhere.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

I believe the speech aired on several networks live and was repeated throughout the day on all cable news outlets.

The American audience was probably many times larger than that 200,000 in Berlin.

It seems that it makes perfect sense if you realize that he's in foreign countries, but all the while, he's speaking to the American people ...making the case "See, I can do this".

Each American can make up his/her own mind about whether Obama's representing our country well or poorly, but almost all American s are watching.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

I think it depends. Obama seems to be going for the Kennedy-esque persona and attempting to run on an air of inevitability and larger than life imagery. As such, the image of him speaking to throngs of adoring Europeans might go farther toward his ends than a series of whistle stops to chat with American voters. Some politicians market the everyman and affect caring about his plight. Perhaps Obama isn't going that route - who knows.

Running for POTUS is selling a product to the American people via a marketing campaign. There are different approaches, and not all of them involve door to door sales.

Please note, that I'm neither endorsing or condemning it - just making observations. Also, I don't think his German foray is necessarily helpful in terms of frank discourse - it certainly perpetuates the idea of politics as salesmanship rather than substance. But, it may be effective for the proposition of getting elected.

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

He has beaten Hillary and so, at least, spares us from that bi%$& (maybe) getting into power.

That's an accomplishment I really can respect about him.

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"bellum omnium contra omnes; atque in eo bello jus esse omnibus in omnia."
Thomas Hobbes

"Homo Homini Lupus"
Thomas Hobbes

I never supported Obama in the primaries, because I honestly believed that he did not have the wherewithal to become President. And I still feel that way.

But to compound that reasoning are his dishonesty and flip-flops on:

The DC handgun ban:
Yes, the way he lied about the Rev. Wright.
His supporting of campaign finance reform and later flip fllops on it.
Flip flops on NAFTA.
Supporting the FISA bill.
His relationship with Bill Ayers.
His lack of military/governmental experience.
His tax plan.
His health care plan.
His wife hating this country.

Sahara:

Please answer the questions I asked you above. Someone claiming to oppose Obama for any of the reasons you gave in your last post is remotely credible ONLY if that person agrees with Obama on most or all of the issues.

Otherwise, the reasons you gave are not reasons, only excuses.

They may not meet with your standard for not supporting a candidate. But they more than satisfy mine.

P.S. I am the voter.

You are also the person who has avoided answering my questions.

Still waiting.

I will not be bullied into answering your questions. Bullying, a common trait of the Obama supporters.

I have given you my answer and that will suffice.

Why don't you two get a chat room..... this is getting uncomfortable to read.



Honestly... people can vote for whoever they want.. or conversely vote against whoever they want. Valid reasons are not required. How else would you explain 2 terms of GWB?

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

You answered them fine.

Libs will bitch and whine and piss and moan when at every turn.

He can't argue with what you wrote, so he considers them "excuses".

Your reasons are sound.

And plentiful...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Thanks Steve. I think that this is a case of the truth hurts.

LBS, let me generalize what I said so that it's not specifically pointed at Sahara; perhaps that will make it more comfortable for you.

I do not believe that anyone honestly opposes Obama for the peripheral and inconsequential reasons that Sahara and others have presented on this board. I do not believe there are many, if any, voters who are against him because he is in his first Senate term, or because of his wife, his former pastor, his Muslim father, his friends, or his trouble speaking extemporaneously. I believe, rather, that people who claim to do so are actually opposing him because they disagree with some or all of what he wants to do, and are using these reasons as excuses, perhaps because they are aware that many people will like what Obama proposes and are looking for reasons to oppose Obama that they can present to liberals with some hope of convincing them. Or perhaps for some other reason; I don't know, as I have never been motivated to come up with excuse reasons to oppose a politician.

This is not a conservative monopoly, of course. There was a book that came out in the Reagan years called Ronald Reagan's Reign of Error, which listed a lot of gaffes that Reagan made, some of which were very funny. But that sort of thing was not the reason he never got my vote -- he never got my vote because I disagreed with his policies. And I don't believe that that sort of thing, or his age, or how he treated his first wife, was anybody's honest reason for opposing Reagan. I don't believe that the way McCain treated his first wife is anyone's honest reason for opposing him, either. Or -- show me someone who agrees with McCain down the line on the issues, who is against him because of how he treated his first wife or his temper or what he did in captivity, etc., and then I'll believe it, but I still won't believe it's common.

I do not much like dishonesty and disingenuousness, and that is what I consider all this irrelevant Obama-bashing to be. I do not say that Sahara doesn't have valid reasons to oppose Obama. I am merely saying those valid reasons are other than the ones that have been given.

Not only is it disingenuous to do this sort of thing, it is also bad strategy, because unless you have political reasons to WANT to oppose Obama, none of this stuff is going to convince you. You need excuses only for what you want to do; if you don't want to do it, then excuses are irrelevant.

Why does it matter to you the reasons why I do not support Obama? Some people have never heard of the FISA bill, DC handguns, campaign finance reforms and still hates Obama.

When I show up to the polls to vote on election day. No one questions me, regarding whom I am voting for, or my reasons for voting for them. I am just asked my name and signed a form. Then off to the booth I go.

I am making a point to say, YOU DO NOT NEEED TO GIVE AN EXPLANATION as to why you are not supporting a candidate. Your decision only has to make sense to you.

Don't you have other things to worry about?