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  #256 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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mudwhistle mudwhistle is offline
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
The reason why bombs go off in Israel is because it is upholding a oppressive occupation of the Palestinian territories. The reason why the Israelis are negotiating with the people who blow up their schoolbusses is because they are not retarted and know why these things happen.
The new method of attack is crushing people with bulldozers. Is it any wonder why Israel needs to control Palestinians.

Oil producing countries in the Middle East could end the poverty of Palestine overnight. But they choose not to because they use Gaza and the West Bank for propaganda purposes with a gullible media.
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  #257 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

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Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
in protecting the homeland? last I checked there were 2 acts of terrorism perpetrated in the US in the 90's and one which took place shortly after the change of guard, which any reasonable persons realizes belongs on Clintons doorstep...and this does no include the 4-5 overseas....

So Osama is in paki, we should invade to go get him? yes or No?
I think there definely should be US troopers looking for him inside Pakistan. That's at least what I wanted if I was an american. I am aware of that this will be a hell of a job for the grunts, but they vowed to defend their people. Hence they gotta find the guy who fried 3000 of their fellow citizens, no matter what it costs.

When it comes to a full scale military invasion, I think that this is a very stupid idea.
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  #258 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudwhistle View Post
The new method of attack is crushing people with bulldozers. Is it any wonder why Israel needs to control Palestinians.

Oil producing countries in the Middle East could end the poverty of Palestine overnight. But they choose not to because they use Gaza and the West Bank for media propaganda purposes.

Israel would rather not have to deal with them but because everyone is supporting their terrorist activities, everyone except us that is, they don't have a choice but to restrict their movements.
If you're saying that the muslim countries basically give a crap about their brothers in Palestine, I agree. I also agree on that the Palestinian people has brought much injustice over the Israelis. But it won't end until the occupation ends. It's as easy as that.
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- John McCain on an episode of Hardball, 2006, before the commercial break

"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
- John McCain on the same episode of Hardball, after the commercial break

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  #259 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
I think there definely should be US troopers looking for him inside Pakistan. That's at least what I wanted if I was an american. I am aware of that this will be a hell of a job for the grunts, but they vowed to defend their people. Hence they gotta find the guy who fried 3000 of their fellow citizens, no matter what it costs.

When it comes to a full scale military invasion, I think that this is a very stupid idea.
I see...so widening the war is okay with you. okay then.
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  #260 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
mudwhistle's Avatar
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabus View Post
If you're saying that the muslim countries basically give a crap about their brothers in Palestine, I agree. I also agree on that the Palestinian people has brought much injustice over the Israelis. But it won't end until the occupation ends. It's as easy as that.
It won't end until every Jew leaves Israel or until every Palestinian is moved to some other country. They will never learn to live together.
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  #261 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

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Originally Posted by mudwhistle View Post
It won't end until every Jew leaves Israel or until every Palestinian is moved to some other country. They will never learn to live together.
As a german I know that even hatred which seems ultimate and indefinite can end quicker than anyone expected. It's just that the mass of people needs to swallow. Right now, with Palestinians having nothing to lose and no perspective for their future, peace is hardly impossible. But that will change once their position and perspective will change.
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"I think that gay marriage should be allowed."
- John McCain on an episode of Hardball, 2006, before the commercial break

"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
- John McCain on the same episode of Hardball, after the commercial break

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign."
- Tucker Bounds, Spokesman of the John McCain presidential campaign.

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  #262 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
I see...so widening the war is okay with you. okay then.
Yes. I can understand that the US needs to widen military operations into Pakistan. If someone fried 3000 of my fellow citizens, I would want his ass on a silverplate, too. But I would want my gouvernment to make quiete an effort to not let the operation escalate into something to which only applies the term "military campaign".
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"I think that gay marriage should be allowed."
- John McCain on an episode of Hardball, 2006, before the commercial break

"I do not believe that gay marriage should be legal."
- John McCain on the same episode of Hardball, after the commercial break

"John McCain does not speak for the John McCain campaign."
- Tucker Bounds, Spokesman of the John McCain presidential campaign.

The straight talk express. You gotta love it.
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  #263 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

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Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
It's pretty clear Obama doesn't support the military. It's also clear people in the military (overall) don't support him.
Oh, how do you draw that conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy764383 View Post
Charlie Daniels had a bigger crowd at Camp AJ in 2006 than Obama did the other day, and he hasn't had a hit in 20 years.
Charlie Daniels had a crowd of fans over 200,000 at Camp AJ? That's impressive for any musician, do you have documentation?
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  #264 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Citizen Obama Speaks

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Originally Posted by mudwhistle View Post
It won't end until every Jew leaves Israel or until every Palestinian is moved to some other country. They will never learn to live together.
except for the fact they have been living together for thousands of years.
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  #265 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Obama's speech in Berlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperator View Post
you might want to check say, Hillary’s accomplishments in her first 3 years....that might be a handy yardstick..
Is Hillary a poster child for legislative proficiency or something? I was unaware...

Since Obama is running against McCain, it might be more relevant to compare McCain's first 3 years of legislative work with Obama's. That might be an apples to apples comparison.

But again, on the whole, Obama has no case for being more experienced than McCain. That ground has to be condeded. Like I said... McCain automatically wins every argument that can be made based on seniority.
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  #266 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Obama's speech in Berlin

McCain's seniority is waist deep in failed policy and old school bureaucracy. We don't need someone with huge amounts of experience in failure.

Iraq for example - McCain keeps arguing that the surge is working and says Obama is wrong. The decision to attack Iraq was the wrong one - a decision McCain supported and Obama opposed.

You can not win a war that is not grounded in honorable cause - Yes the troops can perform their duty with honor and gain tactical success on the ground - but the failure of the commander-in-chief strategy to attack a Country based on a political whim is criminal failure. The victor of a dishonorable war is a loser and McCain wants to continue the loser war. Time to replace losers with winners!

The economy for example - McCain has stated the he has no experience on economic issues and he has stated that he has vast experience on economic issues. The fact that he isn't really clear himself on how well he does not understand economics is telling how much he really does not understand economics.
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  #267 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Obama's speech in Berlin

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Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
Since Obama is running against McCain, it might be more relevant to compare McCain's first 3 years of legislative work with Obama's. That might be an apples to apples comparison.
Kinda' reminds you of all the panty-twisted liberal rants on USPOL comparing Obama to Bush?
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  #268 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Obama's speech in Berlin

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Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
Is Hillary a poster child for legislative proficiency or something? I was unaware...

Since Obama is running against McCain, it might be more relevant to compare McCain's first 3 years of legislative work with Obama's. That might be an apples to apples comparison.

But again, on the whole, Obama has no case for being more experienced than McCain. That ground has to be condeded. Like I said... McCain automatically wins every argument that can be made based on seniority.
No but they both are democrats, and hill had her eye on the prize as soon as she became senator as to making a case for centrality and a record of legislation she could point too, bi partisanship etc. be it jaded or not.
Obama had his eye on the prize after he made the 04 convention speech so the same applies I believe.
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So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

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  #269 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Obama's speech in Berlin

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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Kinda' reminds you of all the panty-twisted liberal rants on USPOL comparing Obama to Bush?
what?

The point of what I said was that if you wanted to measure the legislative productivity of Obama.... you should compare his legislative activities to another senator over the same span of time. .... and I didn't think Hilary is the best example when we could directly compare McCain, since he's the senator that just happens to be Obama's current competitor.

I then condeded that, although Obama's legislative record is not very lengthy, if the litmus is based on seniority.. and therefore legislative experience then there is no contest in the matter. John McCain wins that argument. Hillary Clinton successfully made the same argument.
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  #270 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2008
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Re: Obama's speech in Berlin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViPER View Post
McCain's seniority is waist deep in failed policy and old school bureaucracy. We don't need someone with huge amounts of experience in failure.

Iraq for example - McCain keeps arguing that the surge is working and says Obama is wrong. The decision to attack Iraq was the wrong one - a decision McCain supported and Obama opposed.

You can not win a war that is not grounded in honorable cause - Yes the troops can perform their duty with honor and gain tactical success on the ground - but the failure of the commander-in-chief strategy to attack a Country based on a political whim is criminal failure. The victor of a dishonorable war is a loser and McCain wants to continue the loser war. Time to replace losers with winners!
really? you should re-write history then....



Quote:
The economy for example - McCain has stated the he has no experience on economic issues and he has stated that he has vast experience on economic issues. The fact that he isn't really clear himself on how well he does not understand economics is telling how much he really does not understand economics.
no, I'd say none of them understand economics, he or obama or bush or Clinton or Reagan etc......its how listens to the experts and crafts compromise to enact legislation which makes the economy viable that is the winner in that arena. To few do so, congress is full of “experts” from both sides of the aisle, and look were we are.
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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor
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