yes agreed, re: the expense etc. for Indian tribes etc. ( that would be federal money would it not) BUT I have a soft spot for them, and thats my problem and fully admit I have a hypocritical bent when discussing remuneration to them etc. My bad.

my remarks were flip LBS, yes his record is skimpy, and my remark; “you're on hillarys too” meant to guess that you were checking her record as well....which in fact might provide a handy comparative view.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

uh yeah okay...CLOSE UP SHOP everyone.........hes a dolt....ajax reads minds and knows exactly what mccain has done, and what he thought, so we're pulling up stakes.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Wow thanks for not actually addressing what was brought up.

Maybe you can explain why Obama correctly identified the leader of Germany as Chancellor Angela Merkel but McCain went off about "President Putin of Germany". In order for McCain to make this kind of gaffe he had to have several facts wrong. This isn't just a slip of tongue. After only 3 years on the national scene I have to give Obama credit for being more knowledgeable in foriegn affairs than some people who have 25 years of experience.

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Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

frankly your rant of an answer didn't appear to warrant much more than that as your mind is made up and there really wasn't anything to address that was worth it........just as the above, a gross overestimation and underestimation in one breath, well done. If a week abroad and 2 years as a senator and a complete and autter lack of attention regards his own european nato affairs comm.. didn't move his ass, I guess sleeping at a Holiday is is next on the list, then we can can make him god.....sayanora.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Well, I was more or less making an argument for argument's sake on that one.

Sorry if it looked like I was going beyond attacking your argument there. That wasn't my intent.

I'll let you make that comparison if you want. My agenda was to demonstrate that McCain's first years were not all that impressive when put aside Obama's.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

On Meet the Press, Brokaw, citing a recent USA Today editorial, asked Obama why he cannot bring himself to acknowledge the surge worked better than he and other skeptics thought it would and then asked, "What does that stubbornness say about the kind of president that he would be?", Obama replied

"Well, listen. I, I actually think that there's no doubt that the violence has gone down more than any of us anticipated, including President Bush and John McCain. If you, if you would--if you had talked to them and, and said, "You know what? We're going to bring down violence to the levels that we have," I think--I, I, I suspect USA Today's own editorial board wouldn't have anticipated that. That's not a, that's not a hard thing to acknowledge, that the situations have improved more rapidly than we had anticipated. That doesn't change the broader strategic questions that we've got to deal with."


I think I see what you mean when you say he has nothing to hide. Other than his bad judgment on the most important political issue of the last two years. And his attempts to hide his bad judgment. And his attempts to change the debate.

OK, this is where you say "but he was against the war from the beginning."

But lets talk about his speech in Berlin.

I'm sure the terrorists are sitting around the camp fire having a kumbaya love fest, talking about how we should all "stand as one," and "tear down the walls," etc., etc.

OK, this is where you say "but Bush hasn't caught Osama yet."

Sheep.

I'll stick with sending lots of metal downrange.

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Andy
Cynical Optimist

yes I saw that too, he was floundering.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

Youre blaming Obamas actions on McCain. Why not just judge him on his own merit?

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http://www.fairtax.org

Elminate all taxes on income and replace with a national sales tax.

Me thinks you are ahead of the game. The trip overall for the prty faithful was manna, he doesn’t need to feed manna to the converted, he needs to feed it to the middle, and they are ambivalent I think.
So, I don't think it backfired at all. I think it was a wash t an extent BUT it does highlight Obama meanderings and slips and slides regard how to craft an answer to McCain re: the war...


the old I was against it from the start means diddley squat at this point, because Obama cannot just say he was wrong on the surge, obscuring his larger point. And add to that, that IF the surge and its success continues, people are not going to feel the "war" was a failure and their memories of it being wrong from day one will fade.
No not among the lefty faithful, but among the middle, were the battle is being fought, they might say yea, we really may not have had to go, bit THIS success is fresher in their minds and the US has done what though he may not have articulated well, what Bush was after all along. Alls well that ends well.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

That's not what I'm doing... What I was doing was pointing out the impotency of the move by the McCain camp to publicly flog Obama for not having made a trip to the warzones and then whine like school girls once Obama did.

I guess you can think whatever you want. You're either not reading my words or they're getting lost on you. Not my problem.

I think, on the whole, Obama's trip can be judged as quite a success. 1) he got great photos and footage. 2) Many Foreign leaders he met had favorable things to say about him. 3) He garnered a huge amount of media coverage (at the media's choice) which culminated in a speech in front of 200,000 people. 4) He committed zero gaffes.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

Except for him blowing off our injured troops because he couldn't take cameras.

Obama's a fucking scumbag...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I consider myself part of the middle.... I'm neither a right or a left idealogue.

I'm conservative personally and my outlook on politics is pragmatic and not a game to me.

I don't think very many people are ambivalent about this election or about Obama's trip. Certainly everyone recognizes that domestic issues are top priority for the electorate, and many people recognize that our foreign policy has a direct affect on us at home.



Obama has conceded that violence is down and that the extra troops quelled the violence multiple times in multiple interviews.

I'm not sure what admission you're looking for? He's done everything but say "The Surge Worked". I have no problem with what he's said because that statement is an oversimplification and perhaps not even a complete truism.

"The Surge" has been turned into a vague marketing gimmick... A silver bullet that singlehandedly explains and accounts for strides of progress in Iraq. Certainly Obama needs to defuse it a bit better. Perhaps the politically expedient thing to do would just be to admit that he was wrong in assuming that additional troops would not quell the violence....

This whole issue is meant to change the focus. Likely, the McCain campaign is hoping that if they pound on "The Surge"..."The Surge!".. the voters will lose sight of the forest for the trees.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

Yeah, Obama only saw thousands of troops in person while on his trip... and visited other wounded troops in Iraq without cameras or reporters present.

The whole notion that Obama doesn't care about the troops is bullshit and a complete political ruse from the McCain campaign.

The electorate is not comprised of retards that can be convinced that Obama hates America and our Troops.... well, at least I hope I can give the electorate that much credit.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

Why should he visit them, anyway? I'm not voting for Obama, but it has nothing to do with his not visiting me personally. Likewise, if he did visit me, it would not change my mind about him. I simply don't vote for people based on "did he personally visit me or not." I also realize that the responsibilities of the POTUS do not include personal visits to arbitrarily-selected people/organizations for no better reason than to supposedly show that "he cares." It's to influence national policy.

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If a neocon whines about big government wealth redistribution, just ask him what he thinks about the portion of that big government that sends aid to Israel.

Exactly. He was there as a presidential candidate, and spent a ton of his campain money on the trip for that very reason. He also made the mistake of lying again, just like he did in his speech in Selma. I'm not quite sure if Obama even knows the difference between truth and fantasy.
>>>>To top it off, right-wing bloggers actually fact-checked his speech. In a direct assault on Obama’s self-anointed right to fashion reality according to his own whim, a London paper found several ‘misstatements’ (that’s liberalspeak for lies) in his historic speech. The audacity! <<<< CFP: All Obama, All The Time