well okay, but it appears to me, appears being the operative word, you get a little worked up when obama takes a beating here, just as I don't actually see myself voting McCain though I think I will, I feel it it encumbent upon myself to defend him when he’s right and getting bagged on, plus I have a thing for the underdog.

Anyway, I am not sure of there is one concrete thing he did on his trip through Europe. What was settled? He cannot settle anything, he cannot negotiate anything, and if one person thinks that a weeks jaunt thorough the capitals of Europe now gives him some foreign policy experience then they need their head examined, so can you tell me, what was this trip for? Exactly?

To let the governments in Europe get a look at him a sense of his persona? So what? He not even elected yet and that seems presumptuous to me. His speech?That did what exactly? Introduce himself to Europe? Again , so what? If he isn’t elected it is a complete waste and not worth the celluloid it was recorded on. It was meant to lend a veneer of sophistication and say hello to Europe, okay fine…and ?

Can you tell something he did in Europe that impressed you? What was the measurement of success anyway? What was the point? A photo op in front of a fawning foreign populace?

As far as the surge lbs, I don’t see it as a marketing gimmick anymore than mccain does , or Obama did perhaps, He went to great lengths and made statements, declaratively and outside any misunderstanding, it would fail and in fact increase sectarian violence. It didn’t. I t goes to judgment. And to those dolts like mcaskill who think everyone was born yesterday ala her rant sunday on chris Wallace, “well the anbar awakening was taking place already “, well then why did Obama say the surge would fail or make that statement on the sectarian violence or then add his vote to not fund the war?

When someone asks me if a decision I made that has been proven incorrect would illicit new thinking and a different decision if asked again after post knowledge of its success, I say yes. That’s what a n honest centered person does. He has not. He has danced and is now edging to exactly what the apln was meant to cerate, ispo the success of the surge and ehat tat calls for, time to go.
It was mighty important to Obama when he felt he had notting to lose, it should be as important now. So downgrading the decision and the success is just a strawman from where I sit. He never saw it as efficable and even there after voted against funding it. Until he atones, I am sure there will be many in the middle who will ask themselves if this guy cannot even admit that, then how well does that speak of him as a future president.

One doesn’t close their eyes and cover their ears yelling nya nya nya when faced with a decision that they blew. They man up and move on. That’s what MANY folks here have been screaming about ala Bush and the war has it not? So why now does this paradigm need shifting?




oh and- what is the forest and the trees to you?

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

I make no apologies, nor am I trying to hide that I'm a decided voter. Certainly I think president Obama would be better for America than president McCain.

That's where I'm coming from right now, but again, my disposition and background is conservative.

Obama acted appropriately given that this was a campaign event and he was not operating in an official capacity.

He couldn't very well sign treaties, shape policy, or any substantial diplomatic stuff, so all he could do was speak and meet people. Largely this was a trial to see how Obama would represent America in general.

What the trip showed is that Obama has a certain amount of social grace and likeability that leads foreign leaders to speak well of him....

I can't say I was overly impressed with anything, other than that 30 foot three-pointer he drained while playing basketball on the army base. Obama merely met my expectations of what I figured I'd see from this trip.


I don't think he said it would fail, I think he said it wouldn't solve the problem. I think he turned out to be wrong.... and he should probably admit it.

Likewise, McCain should admit that he was wrong on the reasons for going to war and for voting for war. However, I truly believe that he's convinced he did the right thing. He should be judged for that accordingly.

Glad you asked...

Forest:Trees::Reason for War:The Surge

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

This is a great speech. Check this out! And let us know what you think.
YouTube - Barack Obama campaign song YES WE CAN (rock)

That's one of the worst songs I've ever heard, and one of the worst videos I've ever seen. Both of them suck.

Those people associated with them should be beaten...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Word is that it wasn't easy to get 200,000 Germans to show up. They had to promise free beer and a free Rock Concert to get that many to show up.

Many of them were there because they were curious about Obama, but in retrospective, they felt he wasn't even talking to them. They felt his speech was more geared for people in the US. Obama didn't really connect with them. I sure looked good though, and it will make a really good background in a campaign ad.

Another surprize. Obama gave a copy of the prayer message he placed in the Wailing Wall to the Israeli press. Yesterday I saw the gossup-meisters on The View complaining about somebody stealing it. Nobody stole it. He gave it to them, which explains how quickly the press was able to publish it.....within hours after it was placed. If somebody had stole it I would think they wouldn't want to run to the press so quickly and besides, do you think the Israeli press would publish it without taking the time to vet it first.

Is anything Obama does real?

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"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

Thats a very diffrent reaction too the one that I've heard from over there-and I've heard nothing about promising beer or a concert (Though isn't the Rock AM Ring held there?).

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I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire

There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. - Art of War, Sun-Tzu, Chapter 2, Paragraph 6

"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind"-Gandi

I think the reaction differs. I don't think he connected with his audience. It was a very general uninformative speech. It sounded like he wants to be king of the world.

It was a bit like his acceptance speech after winning the nomination. "This is our time, this is our place!!!" Was he running for German Chancellor or POTUS?

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"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

Yes....

A more pertinent question might be:

- Are any of the scurrilous Obama attacks you regurgitate in this forum real?

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

Turns out all of them are very real. This is not something I made up.

2008Central.net



The MSM doesn't want to cover it and I expect them not to mention it hoping that it will just go away. I think the story will die because none of them will touch it with a ten meter cattle-prod. It would make the Obama campaign look very bad.

Newsmax.com - Israeli Paper: Obama OK’d Prayer Release

Obama Campaign Approved His Prayer for Publishing, Paper Says : The American Pundit

Major Garrett’s Bourbon Room « FOXNews.com

YouTube - Berlinbama's Free concert, Nude girls, Porn Swimsuits

YouTube - Americans to Obama: First U.S. then Germany—World

YouTube - MoveOn.org Tries to Protect Puppet Obama, Attacks Fox News

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"We can't screw it up any worse than they have." - Barack Obama

Wanna bet?



"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste...." - Rahm Emmanuel

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez, Rak, isn't it too early to be hitting the kool-aid?

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Who does vote for these dishonest shitheads? Who among us can be happy and proud of having all this innocent blood on our hands? Who are these swine? These flag-sucking half-wits who get fleeced and fooled by stupid little rich kids like George Bush?

--Hunter S. Thompson

He apologized for America. This guy speaks constantly of Change because he is ashamed of this country. He was bringing his girls up in a church that is ashamed of this country.

The only thing I am ashamed of is that citizens are actually cheering him.

Or maybe he cares enough about the country that he'd like to see change in order to put it back on the right track.

Certainly Europe was happy to see a leader who didn't endorse Bush foreign policy....

But, alas, if you are among the 15% of Americans that feel America is on the right track, by all means, your man is McCain. He has status quo written all over him.

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Congratulations President-Elect Obama

Certainly Europe was happy to see a leader who didn't endorse Bush foreign policy....


Why do you care what Europe thinks? I lived in Europe when I was a kid. They'll hate us no matter what, and if Obama gets elected, they'll find a reason to hate him, too. What I don't understand is why we have to hate ourselves to make improvements.

You don't have to slam America to want to improve it. And saying something as simplistic as "right path" shows that you don't have a grasp on the many sides of the issue. There's some good, there's some bad and it's not like something is right or wrong. A good government CONSTANTLY adjusts to adapt to constantly changing circumstances. There's no comic book right and wrong.

I´m trying to remember when exactly it was that disagreeing with certain policies or discussing those disagreements got turned into "hating us"...

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There's no theory of evolution, only a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live...