I hadn't heard this. What a piece of shit.

It's okay for him to give a speech, in which he specifically states that he's not there as a Presidential candidate, on the campaign dime, but it's not okay for him to visit wounded troops because it would be done on that same campaign dime?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

It's because he's a leader, they can see that, and there has been a terrible void in the world for the last 7 1/2 years, in the world leadership role that the US president used to fill.

Unless of course the US electorate decides it's about time someone gave McCain a chance to show if he had leadership skills, so far, uhhhhh, no, but who knows oftentimes it takes 75 years for a person's real abilities to come out..........

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

That's an interesting comparison, and one likely to piss off partisans on both sides of the aisle

Though, I don't personally find Bush and Obama particularly comparable as candidates. Bush is an ineloquent public speaker even when reading from cue cards, and Obama is not (though apparently not great off the cuff, he can give a decent speech). Though we haven't seen the general election yet, I will venture a guess that Bush's campaign was significantly more ruthless, low-brow, and effective than Obama's will be. Generally speaking, Bush's message is a fear of consequences of what will happen unless he's in charge whereas Obama's is more in the vein of lofty (and quite possibly vague or unfulfillable) promises. In Bush's corner, it's generally believed that being a governor is more along the lines of executive experience. So, while I personally believe that Bush is a dolt (and not Obama), Bush had more credible executive experience, however dubious his success in the role. Of course, that's not going to hurt Obama, since everyone in the race, including Hillary until dropping out, had experience as a congressman and not an executive.

You talk about question marks, but any candidate will have that, since our system encourages overreaching promises, and often ones that are quite calculated and probably not ever intended for implementation (see Democrat promises to end the war in '06 or the endless GOP promise to do something about abortion). There's really no guarantee that any of them are going to fulfill campaign promises at all, so I guess that leaves only the experience question, aside from questions of general intelligence and competence (in which I think both candidates are satisfactory, this time around). McCain has more marginally relevant experience and Obama has less. It's like two bakers applying for a job as a bank teller when one has been a baker for longer than the other

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Where is the guy's foreign policy experience?

A crowd of people showing up to a speech isn't experience. A "void", as you call it, of 7-1/2 years doesn't bestow experience upon him.

Libs are so fucking petrified to admit that the guy's foreign policy experience is almost nil. Shit, I've got more foreign policy experience than Obama has.

I've heard he's "accomplished" as a Senator. Now I've got people trying to say that this speech means that he has "experience". What are his accomplishments? Why does anyone think this speech means anything more than complete dick?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

The speech completely sucked, IMHO. His appearance in Germany provided him an opportunity to paint himself once and for all as an American leader with a thoughtful foreign policy in contrast to the childish good-and-evil jibberish that's been used to justify US global interventions for so many years,

but instead of seizing that opportunity--something one gets when he/she is engaging a much more educated audience, i. e. Germans, he instead tossed a tired set of pro-American, pro-Western platitudes ripe w/themes about unity, WWII, the Wall, etc.

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that's not exactly what Germans wanted to hear from Obama. They wanted to hear an American pol who could rise up and for the first time berate his own country--the USA for its past childish misbehavior and prove the USA could lead with its head.

The Germans wanted a Doppelbock, and Obama gave them Budweiser.

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

O rly?

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

That was an absurdly unrealistic expectation, if so. Remember, however important the Germans will be to Obama after he is inaugurated, they can't vote in U.S. elections, and there is no percentage for him in pissing off the people who can.

Those of us who are aware that the USA has in fact engaged in "childish misbehavior" in the past are well able to read between the lines. (Well -- most of us. ) Those who aren't -- there's no point in antagonizing them by being overly blunt.

The relevant point is that Obama has way more foreign policy experience than McCain. For starters, he knows where Berlin is!

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

Well, true, but Obama can still convey the "US foreign policy sucks" message in a way that doesn't directly insult Americans.

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Life only becomes meaningful at its extremes

-- S

The idea that being popular is a problem would suggest that the person with the fewest votes should get the job and we have been going backwards with this whole democracy thing.

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"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

In all honesty, yeah, I do...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I don't believe I've ever read a more retarded, absurd statement anywhere on the internet, ever...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I'm curious as to what your foreign policy experience is.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas

What, so you can berate and minimize it?

I won't go in depth because I know that's exactly what you'd do, but I will say that I have trained foreign militaries, briefed foreign Heads of State, and have had extensive business dealings with those outside our borders.

That's not nearly all of it, but it's certainly more than Obama has done...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Interesting. Your personal character editorials aside.

Experience is a funny thing to try to measure. I could probably make a decent argument that I have more foreign policy experience than a fair few congress critters.

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"Jesus said: I have cast fire upon the world, and behold I guard it until it is ablaze."
Gospel of Thomas