Obama: "Electricity Rates Would Neccessarily Skyrocket" - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

andy764383 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

From the same interview (where he talked about bankrupting coal companies) with the San Fran Chronicle this last January:

Quote:

The problem is not technical, uh, and the problem is not mastery of the legislative intricacies of Washington. The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.

You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.

They — you — you can already see what the arguments will be during the general election. People will say, “Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy, this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is. Um, if you can’t persuade the American people that yes, there is going to be some increase in electricity rates on the front end, but that over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.

If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.

Source

I'm amazed that for every new day there is yet more evidence just how clueless this guy is.

Steve · #2 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

The first rank of the idiot left should be along shortly to let us know one of three things:

1) Skyrocketing electric rates will be a good thing

-or-

2) He didn't really say that

-or-

3) "What he really meant to say is_____________"

Ainoow · #3 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy764383

From the same interview (where he talked about bankrupting coal companies) with the San Fran Chronicle this last January:

Source

I'm amazed that for every new day there is yet more evidence just how clueless this guy is.

What's wrong with you? Can't handle some common sense? Can't handle some truth? McCain is also supporting the cap 'n trade system. What do you think, that you can just go on wasting energy infinitely? Energy prices are already rising, and Obama has nothing to do with that. You're just shooting the messenger because you hope it fits your tactics of demonizing Obama, regardless if it's bad for your country. Country First, what a joke!

mudwhistle · #4 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy764383

From the same interview (where he talked about bankrupting coal companies) with the San Fran Chronicle this last January:

Source

I'm amazed that for every new day there is yet more evidence just how clueless this guy is.

Yes, but he expounds his cluelessness with such eloquence.

TSGracchus · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Andy, do you have a link to the entire exchange? I went to the link you provided looking for more than you quoted and didn't see it.

DoctorsBill · #6 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ainoow

What's wrong with you? Can't handle some common sense? Can't handle some truth? McCain is also supporting the cap 'n trade system. What do you think, that you can just go on wasting energy infinitely? Energy prices are already rising, and Obama has nothing to do with that. You're just shooting the messenger because you hope it fits your tactics of demonizing Obama, regardless if it's bad for your country. Country First, what a joke!

Here's what I don't get from the you folks; why do we need to jack up the cost of fossil fuels FIRST and develop new technologies LATER? Is there something wrong with developing the new technologies first, and then jacking up the cost of fossil fuels after they're available?

Wouldn't that be a much more prudent course of action? Especially, since, you know, it's the poor who are going to suffer most from those skyrocketing fuel costs?

Oh, wait, don't tell me; what we'll do is raise taxes on the productive classes even higher, to give subsidies to the poor, to help the poor pay the skyrocking cost of electricity, which is skyrocketing because Barack Obama wants it to.

Got it.

TSGracchus · #7 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorsBill

Here's what I don't get from the you folks; why do we need to jack up the cost of fossil fuels FIRST and develop new technologies LATER?

The new technologies have already, for the most part, been developed. (Although there is always room for further refinement and progress.) What needs to happen now is not R&D, but investment and implementation. And part of that is making them competitive with fossil fuels economically. That means shifting government focus away from subsidizing fossil fuels (which it does now) and towards subsidizing the new energy techs and efficiency.

mudwhistle · #8 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoctorsBill

Here's what I don't get from the you folks; why do we need to jack up the cost of fossil fuels FIRST and develop new technologies LATER? Is there something wrong with developing the new technologies first, and then jacking up the cost of fossil fuels after they're available?

Wouldn't that be a much more prudent course of action? Especially, since, you know, it's the poor who are going to suffer most from those skyrocketing fuel costs?

Oh, wait, don't tell me; what we'll do is raise taxes on the productive classes even higher, to give subsidies to the poor, to help the poor pay the skyrocking cost of electricity, which is skyrocketing because Barack Obama wants it to.

Got it.

The point of jacking up the price is to cause a crisis, similar to the banking and housing crisis.

Once the oil industry is pushed into near collapse the Democrats will work on an emergency bailout package to help them take over energy production in this country, Socializing it. Everyone will be in a state of panic and they will come up with this plan to save the day. We won't have much of a choice.

Right now the next President can put a crook in control of banking in this country. A crook that will be able to do whatever he wants to banks. That much power is dangerous. They want to do the same to the oil industry.

andy764383 · #9 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Andy, do you have a link to the entire exchange? I went to the link you provided looking for more than you quoted and didn't see it.

The original audio is here, about halfway down the page.

daddio · #10 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

now why would any candidate make proposals that are designed to hurt the public ?

andy764383 · #11 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

I'm curious as to how many jobs, direct and indirect, this will cost. How many businesses will shut down because of it. Any economists out there run these numbers yet?

TSGracchus · #12 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Thanks for the link, Andy.

Having listened to it, I can now comment somewhat intelligently, especially since I see that your selection wasn't inherently misleading.

He was talking about the cap and trade system that he plans to impose, which would (as he said) increase the cost of producing energy through burning fossil fuels. It would not affect ALL electricity production. It would not affect hydroelectric power, nuclear power, or any of the forms of green energy that he wants to promote, because none of those emit greenhouse gases. But if the power is produced by burning natural gas (somewhat), oil (somewhat more), or coal (a lot), the cost would go up because the utility would have to pay for the right to emit the greenhouse gases these fuels produce.

Clueless? On the contrary, he's the only candidate that seems to understand that a measure like this is NECESSARY. We don't have a choice about this: we HAVE to move away from dependence on fossil fuels. Now, what's the best way to do that? Use the power of government to set the parameters and ground rules and then let the market drive the change, as Obama wants to do? Or simply lay down the law and ban burning of fossil fuels? Those are the choices. Continuing business as usual is not a viable choice.

What's interesting as well is that he gave this speech before he was nominated, when the contest was between him and Hillary Clinton. So it's really impossible to argue, as some have done, that he's some sort of stealth candidate, hiding his real positions.

You've given me yet another reason to be very impressed with this man. I've also come to see that I don't even disagree with him on the issue of so-called "clean coal," now that I understand better where he's coming from. He's properly skeptical that greenhouse-free coal is possible, but doesn't want to rule it out by fiat just in case he should turn out to be wrong. That exactly mirrors my own belief.

Barack Obama is exactly the leader we need in these extremely difficult times, which are more challenging than most people realize, and his existence, the fact that we can still produce someone like this, demonstrates that the Gods have not ceased to smile upon America.

MattLarson · #13 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Barack Obama is exactly the leader we need in these extremely difficult times, which are more challenging than most people realize, and his existence, the fact that we can still produce someone like this, demonstrates that the Gods have not ceased to smile upon America.

Oh, please.

Obama is a divine gift? Seriously, WTF, over?

Matt

andy764383 · #14 (**permalink**) 11-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSGracchus

Thanks for the link, Andy.

Having listened to it, I can now comment somewhat intelligently, especially since I see that your selection wasn't inherently misleading.

He was talking about the cap and trade system that he plans to impose, which would (as he said) increase the cost of producing energy through burning fossil fuels. It would not affect ALL electricity production. It would not affect hydroelectric power, nuclear power, or any of the forms of green energy that he wants to promote, because none of those emit greenhouse gases. But if the power is produced by burning natural gas (somewhat), oil (somewhat more), or coal (a lot), the cost would go up because the utility would have to pay for the right to emit the greenhouse gases these fuels produce.

Clueless? On the contrary, he's the only candidate that seems to understand that a measure like this is NECESSARY. We don't have a choice about this: we HAVE to move away from dependence on fossil fuels. Now, what's the best way to do that? Use the power of government to set the parameters and ground rules and then let the market drive the change, as Obama wants to do? Or simply lay down the law and ban burning of fossil fuels? Those are the choices. Continuing business as usual is not a viable choice.

What's interesting as well is that he gave this speech before he was nominated, when the contest was between him and Hillary Clinton. So it's really impossible to argue, as some have done, that he's some sort of stealth candidate, hiding his real positions.

You've given me yet another reason to be very impressed with this man. I've also come to see that I don't even disagree with him on the issue of so-called "clean coal," now that I understand better where he's coming from. He's properly skeptical that greenhouse-free coal is possible, but doesn't want to rule it out by fiat just in case he should turn out to be wrong. That exactly mirrors my own belief.

Barack Obama is exactly the leader we need in these extremely difficult times, which are more challenging than most people realize, and his existence, the fact that we can still produce someone like this, demonstrates that the Gods have not ceased to smile upon America.

Interesting.

So, check out this Energy Information Administration (Fed Gov't) page that says 70.6% of electricity generation in the U.S. is from carbon based fuels, with fully 49% of that from coal.

Obama says his cap and trade plan with cause electricity prices to skyrocket. Since 70.6% of the generation is affected, I'd say it's going to be a huge problem for every American, but especially the middle class and the poor, who can't absorb much in the way of increases.

I'll ask again. How many jobs is this going to cost?
How many businesses are going to go under?
How many kids will not be able to go to college because their families can't afford it anymore?

Anyone?