Thread: How to know if you're a liberal

Originally Posted by Traveler

I think going back to the traditionalist terms (which you're advocating and what Doc has also been arguing for some time) is what they have in Australia still to this day.

The Liberal party there (they emphasise it with a captital "L") is what holds the policies that were most in line with what the rest of the world now views as modern day conservatism. (Correct me if i'm wrong Noa).

Just to confuse the issue some more...

Should I be threatening to move to the land down under, if the Dems win in 2010?

Haha, well the Liberal party lost the last election in OZ but they are due elecions quicker than we are from what i remember. Rudd is the PM atm, but fairly supportive of US policy.

They have very strict tight immigrations laws too though!

Originally Posted by ArmyFerret

Not every person who votes GOP is a God-loving gay-bashing Arab-bomber, but every God-loving gay-bashing Arab-bombing voter does vote GOP.

I think I'd have to agree with you on that point....

Originally Posted by noahath

I think I'd have to agree with you on that point....

I take it you've never met the Union vote, have you?

The democrats were the party of unions long before they were the party of political-correctness, and until this past election unions were the core of the democrat's base. Further, need we forget that Obama's "bringing out the black vote" is what passed Prop 8 in Cali?

But go on thinking that only the GOP has close-minded idiots, if it makes you feel better!

P.S. Try going to a GM plant and hitting on one of the factory workers...you'll soon learn just how gay-friendly the dem's base can be...

Originally Posted by Luap

What number would be enough for you to admit that the Democratic party has its share of people that don't like gays or Arabs?

are we talking about the democratic party or liberals?

Originally Posted by EagleSeven

I take it you've never met the Union vote, have you?

The democrats were the party of unions long before they were the party of political-correctness, and until this past election unions were the core of the democrat's base. Further, need we forget that Obama's "bringing out the black vote" is what passed Prop 8 in Cali?

But go on thinking that only the GOP has close-minded idiots, if it makes you feel better!

P.S. Try going to a GM plant and hitting on one of the factory workers...you'll soon learn just how gay-friendly the dem's base can be...

I never stated that only closed-minded idiots vote GOP ... however based on much of what we see when it comes to election battles, you have to admit that it's easy to see why many people can believe that.

Originally Posted by noahath

I never stated that only closed-minded idiots vote GOP ... however based on much of what we see when it comes to election battles, you have to admit that it's easy to see why many people can believe that.

Sorry, but some of the most closed minded people I have ever met have been far left liberals. It's their way... or you are just some stupid Republican.

Originally Posted by EagleSeven

I take it you've never met the Union vote, have you?

The democrats were the party of unions long before they were the party of political-correctness, and until this past election unions were the core of the democrat's base. Further, need we forget that Obama's "bringing out the black vote" is what passed Prop 8 in Cali?

But go on thinking that only the GOP has close-minded idiots, if it makes you feel better!

P.S. Try going to a GM plant and hitting on one of the factory workers...you'll soon learn just how gay-friendly the dem's base can be...

The Union vote is an entity unto themselves, a group of people more concerned with what they consider to be fair compensation than actually working.

It's no different than saying: not every Democrat voter is a secular tree-hugging baby-killer, but every secular tree-hugging baby-killing voter does vote Democrat. I'm sure the close-minded wackos on either side make up maybe a percentage point of the overall picture. But they are loud, they have no lives, and they don't shut up.

Originally Posted by ArmyFerret

It's no different than saying: not every Democrat voter is a secular tree-hugging baby-killer, but every secular tree-hugging baby-killing voter does vote Democrat.

Then how do you explain Steve....I'm pretty sure he's a babykiller

Originally Posted by ArmyFerret

I'm sure the close-minded wackos on either side make up maybe a percentage point of the overall picture. But they are loud, they have no lives, and they don't shut up.

quote for truth

Originally Posted by Traveler

I think going back to the traditionalist terms (which you're advocating and what Doc has also been arguing for some time) is what they have in Australia still to this day.

The Liberal party there (they emphasise it with a captital "L") is what holds the policies that were most in line with what the rest of the world now views as modern day conservatism. (Correct me if i'm wrong Noa).

Just to confuse the issue some more...

You've got it absolutely correct Trav. Our conservative party is known as the Liberal Party (as opposed to the leftist party which is known as the Labor Party).

Originally Posted by solletica

Nevertheless, there's no question that a cultural division exists in America between those to whom the term "God", gay-bashing, and bombing Arabs have the widest appeal--termed the right--and those to whom science, the right of individual expression (including sexual expression), and diplomacy have the widest appeal--termed the left.

If this weren't true, GOP pols couldn't win elections simply by promising God, gay-bashing, and bombing Arabs, but, in reality, they do.

Except classical liberalism is not, generally, considered a left-wing ideology. It certainly has very little in common with the 'liberals' (read Dems) in the US.

Or did I totally miss your point?

Originally Posted by bg85

are we talking about the democratic party or liberals?

I assumed you were referring to the Democratic party when you said "the blue guys."

Should liberalism be defined by means or by ends?

Small government was never the goal. The goal of classical liberalism was human liberty and well-being. Keeping government small and restrained was a means to that end. At a time when the most common form of government was still hereditary monarchy, when titled nobility still existed as more than an anachronism, when the industrial revolution was in its infancy, and when the bourgeoisie was still the "middle class" that its name literally means, government was the biggest threat to liberty, and there was very little that government needed to do or even could do for the common man, except stay out of his way.

That situation is no longer with us. Today, while government is still in theory the greatest potential threat to liberty, much of that threat is defused through democratic elections, separation of powers, and restraints such as the Bill of Rights. The greatest actual threat to liberty today is not government, but powerful corporations, and the only agency capable of restraining the power of corporations is government.

Classical liberal means no longer serve classical liberal ends, which is why, today, those who call themselves liberal no longer resort to them. And modern liberals have, in my opinion, a better right to call themselves by that name than libertarians do, because while libertarians have remained true to classical liberal means, liberals have remained true to the ends -- and that is more important.