Yes... this is the route that is taken. I am surprised no one has brought up marrying a goat yet.

When did you ever take me seriously? Im pointing out the crux of the GOP. It's a clusterfuck, and if i didn't provide you with an acceptable option feel free to add one.

btw I see you (a conservative) as a #4, am I wrong? I feel your pain dude.

__________________
The bush administration and bank lobbyists proudly killing our economic system - 2003.

paper bag, cover mouth wiht bag, breath in breath out of the bag...slowly....there, better?

my remark has nothing to do with what bush did and didn't do.... get it yet?

__________________

"The captain has turned off the `No Dubbing' sign. You are free to speak any language you choose."

The GOP didn't do that, it's a large voting block that understands economics and how terrible Obama's ideology will be for the country. Americans are smarter than the puppets this administration thinks they are. However, it looks like some members of both parties are waking up and finally realizing this.

edit: Please don't bring up Bush, Obama is just continuing many of his failed policies and people are realizing it.

Well I've heard that argument, and of course it is ridiculous. We don't allow minors to marry because a minor cannot give their consent. I may be way off base here but I don't believe a goat could give consent either.

This kind of hyperbolic argument usually evades the point. The fact is certain people don't think that gays should marry, and some of these individuals want the government to enforce their particular form of morality. There is where the disagreement lies. As you stated, if you don't like gay marriage, don't marry the same sex.

Didn't like that example, ok, try marrying an 8 yo. Or, marrying multiple partners at the same time. Either will do.

__________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

The vast majority of Americans don't support gay marriage. Even liberal California voted against it.

__________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

Merely showing Dis the error in his thinking. He stated the constitution says anyone is free to marry anyone, not I.

As far as goats, you brought them up, again not I.

Be that as it may, it's a slippery slope you wish to drag society down.

__________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

If this keeps going I suggest we start another thread.

I'll be more than happy to discuss the system here. My discussion doesn't mean that I am either for or against the current system. I am simply discussing what it is. People have to go through the government because that is the way the system is set up. Remember that as long as a system is constitutionally granted the federal government can do it and where it isn't then the states respectively can do it or the people. In times past, it was established (I don't really know by who) that the government would grant legal license and benefits to marriage. I don't know how involved the federal government has the power to be but the states certainly can do this and they did.

You are certainly welcome to express your opinion as that is your right to free speech but this is the way system is and unless there is something unconstitutional about it the only way to change it is through legislatures.

I don't know that I have a problem with gays not going to government and having their own makeshift personal "ceremony" and calling that a marriage. They can do what they want there. For official purposes, however, I do not support it.

Here is one of the fallacies of many gay marriage supporters. The truth is that gays already have equal rights. They enjoy freedom of speech, freedom to vote, freedom to own property, etc just like everyone else. Usually when this argument is brought up it is alluding to the 14th amendment's "equal protection of the law" clause. Even if that isn't what you are getting at I am going to address that anyway as it shows how gays already have equal rights.

The equal protection of the law clause comes from the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution and means that the law must apply equally to everyone. Basically, anyone who meets the requirements for something is entitled by law to that something. For example, if two men go to the DMV, take the driving test and pass, both are entitled by law to a drivers license. The equal protection of the law clause demands that both get a drivers license because they both met the requirements. If one of them was denied, then it would be a violation of the equal protection of the law clause. However, no one would object to a person being denied a drivers license because they did not meet the requirements for it (Ex. if they failed the driving test). Changing gears a bit here, no person can meet the requirements for marriage with a member of the same gender. You have to enter into marriage with a member of the opposite gender in order to meet the requirements. Thus no discrimination is taking place because same gender couples don't meet a requirement (it's like someone not passing the drivers test). If they did meet the requirement they could get married (and this has been proven by the fact that individuals with same gender attraction have been married before). The law already applies equally and no one is denied when they meet the requirements.

If there is no violation of rights then it is completely within the Constitution for the people to speak out on the issue.

They are equal. See above.

No I'm not. See above.

See above.

__________________
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, ... That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,"
-Declaration of Independence

Two truths that many Americans seem to have forgotten:
1. Men are endowed by God with inalienable rights.
2. Government's purpose is to secure man's God-given rights.

But, I'm curious, do you supporters of gay marriage think it's okay to impose your version of morality on the rest of us?

__________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

Nevada decided to put all their eggs in one basket and focus on gambling. The writing was on the wall for decades. Instead of diversifying the economy Nevadans decided that taxing casinos instead of adding a little variety was the way to go. I'm well aware that Nevada has the second highest unemployment rate in the nation. The only thing I wish is that Nevada would getting more fed dollars. Aside from that my opinion is unchanged. I'm not a right-winger, that's why my beliefs don't change whenever the timing would be convenient.

__________________
Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

Noone should be imposing morality on anyone, one way or the other. Unfortunately when it comes to hypocritical moralizing, the conservatives are the undisputed leaders.

__________________
Is our children learning? -George W. Bush

"I think—tide turning—see, as I remember—I was raised in the desert, but tides kind of—it's easy to see a tide turn—did I say those words?"—Washington, D.C., June 14, 2006

"[T]he illiteracy level of our children are appalling."—Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 2004

How you figure? My taxes would go up, my costs of goods and services would go up, and I would be forced to subsidize what I find to be immorality.

__________________
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. ---P. J. O'Rourke

And what "conservatives" are you speaking of? Fiscal or social?

Last time I checked, I wasn't trying to force my morality on anyone.

Uh, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves and he was a Republican (though I know he did it more to preserve the union).

The majority of KKK members at that time were Democrats (not to mention former KKK Dem. Senator R. Byrd of today) and it was Republicans who supported and voted for civil rights legislation more so than Democrats.

But you are correct about Repubs supporting a ban on gay marriage.

__________________


"Democracy passes into despotism." - Plato