Thread: I'm happy the Dems are losing, but would be happier if Republicans were losing too

they both lost last night...even though Hoffman didn't pull it out, considering all that went on, being 4% down was not bad at all, the gop and the likes of Steele etc. will think on that, well hopefully.

The dems? We'll see, they have a problem on 2 fronts, getting the vote out of their own (the real Obama failure) , and the indies have turned against them, thats the biggest lesson and you know what? Thats a good thing, the indies can drag both of them to the center.

B UT as I said the dem issues are far worse because they have the power right now and Pelosi and Reid are leftys, Pelosi is way out there, harry befitting his position the less extreme senate les so.

The blue dogs have to face a few truths today;

first- Obama cannot help them stay in office, he can only hurt them.
Second- Pelosi is like a general trying to take a hill, she has crippled air power in the form of Obama and no artillery, just bodies.

Cannon fodder and she will throw 10-20 blue dogs to the wolves to take the hill, that being of course health care...this isn't the army , she broke arms to get cap and trade through which it appears was a strategic mistake, as she would have an issue were she could break those arms, as she cannot go to that well often, she already has used thsat up and they won’t go for it again, so in effect she wasted it on something that will never pass now, and was in fact dubious at best, which I think we can safely say is totally dead, and she will not have the same ability or influence to break arms for health care , ala last night.

I'd be happy if the taxpayers were winning.

Originally Posted by Imperator

they both lost last night...even though Hoffman didn't pull it out, considering all that went on, being 4% down was not bad at all, the gop and the likes of Steele etc. will think on that, well hopefully.

The dems? We'll see, they have a problem on 2 fronts, getting the vote out of their own (the real Obama failure) , and the indies have turned against them, thats the biggest lesson and you know what? Thats a good thing, the indies can drag both of them to the center.

B UT as I said the dem issues are far worse because they have the power right now and Pelosi and Reid are leftys, Pelosi is way out there, harry befitting his position the less extreme senate les so.

The blue dogs have to face a few truths today;

first- Obama cannot help them stay in office, he can only hurt them.
Second- Pelosi is like a general trying to take a hill, she has crippled air power in the form of Obama and no artillery, just bodies.

Cannon fodder and she will throw 10-20 blue dogs to the wolves to take the hill, that being of course health care...this isn't the army , she broke arms to get cap and trade through which it appears was a strategic mistake, as she would have an issue were she could break those arms, as she cannot go to that well often, she already has used thsat up and they won’t go for it again, so in effect she wasted it on something that will never pass now, and was in fact dubious at best, which I think we can safely say is totally dead, and she will not have the same ability or influence to break arms for health care , ala last night.

I just feel our "center" as a nation represents something closer to the constitution than what we have now and neither party represents the actual "center" so it's difficult to pull them in a real direction.

I do agree with most of your post though.

Originally Posted by Imperator

tthe indies have turned against them, thats the biggest lesson and you know what? Thats a good thing, the indies can drag both of them to the center.

The defacto leader of the GOP, Rush Limbaugh, keeps saying the republicans need to swing way more to the right. BECOME MORE CONSERVATIVE is the battle cry. Now you could argue he's just a pundit and his opinion doesn't carry weight. But if you say that you'd be ignoring the fact that every single republican who has crossed him has wound up sucking up to him within the next day or so.

I'm not holding my breath that the GOP will move more to the center.

As far as the dems, the problem with them is they're governing right down the middle, trying overly hard to compromise and continually getting shot down by the far-right party of no, and consequently they're moving more and more to the right of center on every piece of legislation. That is why the dems are losing support, they're governing like they're last-years republicans (except for the marching in lock-step part).

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

The defacto leader of the GOP, Rush Limbaugh, keeps saying the republicans need to swing way more to the right. BECOME MORE CONSERVATIVE is the battle cry. Now you could argue he's just a pundit and his opinion doesn't carry weight. But if you say that you'd be ignoring the fact that every single republican who has crossed him has wound up sucking up to him within the next day or so.

I'm not holding my breath that the GOP will move more to the center.

As far as the dems, the problem with them is they're governing right down the middle, trying overly hard to compromise and continually getting shot down by the far-right party of no, and consequently they're moving more and more to the right of center on every piece of legislation. That is why the dems are losing support, they're governing like they're last-years republicans (except for the marching in lock-step part).

Still amazed you call yourself disillusioned when you write stuff like this.

Originally Posted by wiggidy

Seems like more of the same. When are voters going to wake up and support something different?

They both lost last night! Obama--the master at campaigning was not able to pull out a win in NJ--considered the bluest of blue states--campaigning for Corzine on 5 different occasions--T.V advertisements & with Corzine spending 30 million of his own money to win re-election. Virginia another tell tale sign of what the Tsunami is going to look like in 2010 for liberal democrats who voted for the stimulus bill--the cap & trade bill--& are whom are supporting a public option government take-over of health care.

Republicans lost too though. The idiots republican committee in NY23 picked a liberal democrat female--in the back room of a pizza parlor to be their nominee. They got called out on it--way late--an unknown Hoffman came into view--& the liberal female democrat with an R behind her name threw her support to the democrat--LOL I doubt the republican party in any district will make that same mistake again. What's truly amazing is Hoffman got so close to winning.

Republicans & Democrats need to start paying special attention to these tea-parties around this country. Republicans especially. We want conservatives to vote for--& we could care less if they're democrats, republicans or independants.

This is a wake up call for the Republican party too.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

The defacto leader of the GOP, Rush Limbaugh, keeps saying the republicans need to swing way more to the right. BECOME MORE CONSERVATIVE is the battle cry. Now you could argue he's just a pundit and his opinion doesn't carry weight. But if you say that you'd be ignoring the fact that every single republican who has crossed him has wound up sucking up to him within the next day or so.

I'm not holding my breath that the GOP will move more to the center.

As far as the dems, the problem with them is they're governing right down the middle, trying overly hard to compromise and continually getting shot down by the far-right party of no, and consequently they're moving more and more to the right of center on every piece of legislation. That is why the dems are losing support, they're governing like they're last-years republicans (except for the marching in lock-step part).

I really don't know which news channels you watch--but it has been known for decades that the overwhelming majority in this country lean center right.

You had a candidate that talked center all the way through the campaign season, won the election & then jumped far left. WHY? Because he is not an executive. This is how inexperienced he really is. He let the likes of crazy liberal Nancy Pelosi set policy for him, & he just became the sales person of her policies.

This defeat in NJ & Virginia could not speak louder. Americans still lean more to the conservative side than they do the liberal side.

As far as Rush Limbaughs best comment of today. He & his staff are still trying to count how many votes were saved or created in these two states--

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

The defacto leader of the GOP, Rush Limbaugh, keeps saying the republicans need to swing way more to the right. BECOME MORE CONSERVATIVE is the battle cry. Now you could argue he's just a pundit and his opinion doesn't carry weight. But if you say that you'd be ignoring the fact that every single republican who has crossed him has wound up sucking up to him within the next day or so.

I'm not holding my breath that the GOP will move more to the center.

As far as the dems, the problem with them is they're governing right down the middle, trying overly hard to compromise and continually getting shot down by the far-right party of no, and consequently they're moving more and more to the right of center on every piece of legislation. That is why the dems are losing support, they're governing like they're last-years republicans (except for the marching in lock-step part).

You are giving far, far too much credit and power to Rush Limbaugh - which, of course, is exactly what he wants.

You talk about conservatives as if we another form of life, with every stereotype and corn-ball assumption repeated again and again.

If you really want the left to win elections and remain in power, you have to understand your adversary and make at least an attempt to look outside the left-wing bubble. That knowledge is necessary if only for pragmatic reasons.

Originally Posted by wiggidy

Seems like more of the same. When are voters going to wake up and support something different?

Well, there is something different - the independent vote is the focus of discussion and interest and is the deciding factor now in almost all elections.

That means both sides have to acknowledge a reality outside their own self-protected world.

Too early to call whether any of these races are bellweather. NJ is a big loss for Dems, but the D candidate also had scandals and Christie is most moderate. Virginia looks like a big win for Repubs, but that state has always been closer to South Carolina than Massachusetts, Obama is still popular there, Deeds declined to use him until too late, and McDonnell lied about his conservatism and ran as a moderate. The New York race seems to be a repudiation of running to the far right, but you can't tell from one race. It was certainly an odd race in every way.

Repeat any of these things half a dozen times in a good economy and you have a trend. But one occurrence during a bad economy simply isn't the indication that either party was looking for.

Originally Posted by Tim

You are giving far, far too much credit and power to Rush Limbaugh - which, of course, is exactly what he wants.

Its republican politicians that give him that credit and power by sucking up to him after everytime they try to say he's wrong or not important.

You talk about conservatives as if we another form of life, with every stereotype and corn-ball assumption repeated again and again.

Actually I was talking about republicans not conservatives. Are they synonymous?

If you really want the left to win elections and remain in power, you have to understand your adversary and make at least an attempt to look outside the left-wing bubble. That knowledge is necessary if only for pragmatic reasons.

I don't actually WANT the left to win elections. I WANT a fiscally conservative party with liberal social values to win elections. That party doesn't exist. Ron Paul is the closest the republicans have. The dems, while not fiscally conservative are socially liberal. The republicans are not fiscally conservative, but they ARE socially conservative, hence I disagree with them more than the dems. So either way I'm fucked, but I tend to point out the failings of the republicans the most because they are the most screwed up of the two parties, the most hypocritical, have the least overall rational game plan, and they at least USED to stand for fiscal conservatism until they got hijacked by religious nutjobs to implement failed and bigoted social policies.

Originally Posted by Disillusioned_1

Its republican politicians that give him that credit and power by sucking up to him after everytime they try to say he's wrong or not important.



Actually I was talking about republicans not conservatives. Are they synonymous?



I don't actually WANT the left to win elections. I WANT a fiscally conservative party with liberal social values to win elections. That party doesn't exist. Ron Paul is the closest the republicans have. The dems, while not fiscally conservative are socially liberal. The republicans are not fiscally conservative, but they ARE socially conservative, hence I disagree with them more than the dems. So either way I'm fucked, but I tend to point out the failings of the republicans the most because they are the most screwed up of the two parties, the most hypocritical, have the least overall rational game plan, and they at least USED to stand for fiscal conservatism until they got hijacked by religious nutjobs to implement failed and bigoted social policies.

That last bit isn't likely to happen. Social conservatives are too power hungry and too fear-based to actually ever seriously consider the consequences, both real and abstract, of their policies.

Originally Posted by Tanngrisnir3

That last bit isn't likely to happen. Social conservatives are too power hungry and too fear-based to actually ever seriously consider the consequences, both real and abstract, of their policies.

Well put. It was the Paulista's downfall as well.