Thread: NBC poll--Tea Party more popular that the Democrat or Republican party.

Originally Posted by WharfedaleTiger

Seems like a conservative to me-perhaps not in the same style as your conservatism but he conforms to a type of conservatism-just because he dosn't share all of your views dosn't make him not a conservative.

No McCain is a progressive, his views are consistently anything BUT conservative. I've watched him for decades. He sabotages the conservatives in the Senate. When it comes to matters of war he sometimes breaks the pattern but he's more interested in making the democrats happy than he is in standing on principle. He's like most people, he has some views on either side of the spectrum but his fundamental make up is liberal. And he's proud of the fact that he came in near the bottom of his class. If he HAD been a conservative he would have won the last election. That's why his campaign came to life when he brought in a REAL conservative, Sarah Palin.

Right, the fact that she is also an idiot has no baring on your thoughts?

That's rich! Ha, ha...Let's see, Sarah Palin is a self made woman, who went from city council person to Governor of a large state, and has much executive experience, wisdom and common sense. Obama has been pushed up the ladder, has zero executive experience or any other kind other than being a what? "community organizer"??!! He demonstrated a complete lack of leadership, unable to get anything he wants even past his own party. Come on Wharf me lad, be reasonable. Who's the real "idiot" here?

Originally Posted by Michael_Q

That's rich! Ha, ha...Let's see, Sarah Palin is a self made woman, who went from city council person to Governor of a large state, and has much executive experience, wisdom and common sense.

Oh, shit, really?

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

*sticks his noggin' thru the porthole*

mateys,

if them Tea Party members actually morph into a third party, methinks they shall run fast and hard from the GOP...'least if thar big concern be fiscal discipline and turn towards either the democrats or forge thar own path.

raise yer sails and head o'er to this part 'o our forums....

The deficit breakdown pie chart

drop anchor at post #65 and #79.

the mighty and charmin' Mrs. Palin shall have to run head to head against the GOP.

*nod nod*

- MeadHallPirate

Really?

Inflation became a serious problem at the same time that deficit spending became a serious problem - during the LBJ administration. Inflation took off during the late 60s and began to destroy the economy in the 70s.

That was entirely the fault of the Democrats.

It is rare when one party is entirely at fault. There is no question that was the case at the time. They even paid for enormous increases in government spending through the use of inflated dollars. Productivity collapsed. Inflation and interest rates remained in the double digits.

Reagan's activism, combined with the Federal Reserve, broke the back of inflation. The deficit grew as a percentage of GDP because spending was no longer covered by an inflated currency.

I agree that the deficits were a serious problem in the 80s. But it was a worthwhile trade-off because the economy returned to dynamic growth and low unemployment.

Clinton was the rare case of a Democrat who learned from his mistakes. Together with the GOP congress and the Fed, they promoted policies that resulted in a small surplus. Both parties share the credit. Of course, it was the US workers and corporations who were mostly responsible.

I quite agree that the GOP spent far too much in the past decade and I am the first to complain.

But the idea that the Democrats somehow have a better record on this issue is utterly preposterous.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Oh, shit, really?

Yea, really. Do a little homework. She's very accomplished and certainly light-years ahead of that pant load in the Oval Office.

Originally Posted by Michael_Q

Yea, really. Do a little homework. She's very accomplished and certainly light-years ahead of that pant load in the Oval Office.

She was governor of a large landmass, but a small population. She quit that job; just walked away. Her wisdom and common sense have yet to be shown - clearly her behavior thus far indicate her possession of neither.

She's a spoiled quitter who has been able to fool a small group of people into thinking that her looks surpass her absolute vapidity. Her popularity is in no small part due to the morbid curiosity that many have - she's a train wreck that just keeps happening.

She has not demonstrated any real leadership ability, nor any real insight into any real issue. She is insulated and isolated from reality, and a couple folksy "youbetcha" winks won't make up for that in the long run.

Originally Posted by pramjockey

She was governor of a large landmass, but a small population. She quit that job; just walked away. Her wisdom and common sense have yet to be shown - clearly her behavior thus far indicate her possession of neither.

She's a spoiled quitter who has been able to fool a small group of people into thinking that her looks surpass her absolute vapidity. Her popularity is in no small part due to the morbid curiosity that many have - she's a train wreck that just keeps happening.

She has not demonstrated any real leadership ability, nor any real insight into any real issue. She is insulated and isolated from reality, and a couple folksy "youbetcha" winks won't make up for that in the long run.

Well Pram, you've bought the liberal package and I know I won't talk you out of it. There's a perfectly sensible and totally intelligent reason why she left office early. But you know better. The left has balls saying that being Governor of any entity is not good executive experience especially when the bum they support has no executive experience of ANY kind. That's just empty nonsense. It's like this business of giving Sarah grief about having some notes on her hand as she speaks off the cuff, while that bastard in D.C. can't even talk to some school kids without having a script on his teleprompter. It's the vicious left, pure and simple. There's no reasoning with the left, I'm not surprised you don't see anything you like in Sarah Palin, why would you?

Originally Posted by Michael_Q

Well Pram, you've bought the liberal package and I know I won't talk you out of it. There's a perfectly sensible and totally intelligent reason why she left office early. But you know better. The left has balls saying that being Governor of any entity is not good executive experience especially when the bum they support has no executive experience of ANY kind. That's just empty nonsense. It's like this business of giving Sarah grief about having some notes on her hand as she speaks off the cuff, while that bastard in D.C. can't even talk to some school kids without having a script on his teleprompter. It's the vicious left, pure and simple. There's no reasoning with the left, I'm not surprised you don't see anything you like in Sarah Palin, why would you?

Michael, you don't even know what "liberal" is.

She left office because she's a quitter. Nothing more.

The rest of your post has nothing to do with my post at all. The only thing I'd say about her writing notes on her palm is "someone buy her a note card." Obama didn't use a teleprompter to talk to children, nor when he did off-the-cuff questions with the Congressional Republicans.

Do you s'pose that Caribou Barbie could survive a Q&A period with the Democrats? I'd betcha that she'd flounder!

Originally Posted by Tim

Really?

Inflation became a serious problem at the same time that deficit spending became a serious problem - during the LBJ administration. Inflation took off during the late 60s and began to destroy the economy in the 70s.

That was entirely the fault of the Democrats.

It is rare when one party is entirely at fault. There is no question that was the case at the time. They even paid for enormous increases in government spending through the use of inflated dollars. Productivity collapsed. Inflation and interest rates remained in the double digits.

Reagan's activism, combined with the Federal Reserve, broke the back of inflation. The deficit grew as a percentage of GDP because spending was no longer covered by an inflated currency.

I agree that the deficits were a serious problem in the 80s. But it was a worthwhile trade-off because the economy returned to dynamic growth and low unemployment.

Clinton was the rare case of a Democrat who learned from his mistakes. Together with the GOP congress and the Fed, they promoted policies that resulted in a small surplus. Both parties share the credit. Of course, it was the US workers and corporations who were mostly responsible.

I quite agree that the GOP spent far too much in the past decade and I am the first to complain.

But the idea that the Democrats somehow have a better record on this issue is utterly preposterous.

ahoy Tim!

i agree with you that Paul Volcker (d), did much to end the crises 'o inflation durin' his tenure. regardin' job creation under the much revered president Reagan, the tables that gary/dubya provided seem to indicate that mr. Reagan's activism resulted in heavy budget deficits and job growth figures that were smaller than both president Carter and the Kennedy/Johnson era.

imma address the rest of yer post, i shall indeed (i'd have to do a bit more readin' first though), but i've got to lift anchor and head off to work.

*bows*

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by pramjockey

Michael, you don't even know what "liberal" is.

Of course I do. I've been studying liberals and liberalism since I was old enough to know what politics was. Your blinded opinion of Sarah Palin is the typical liberal point of view, based on nothing but emotion and ideology.

She left office because she's a quitter. Nothing more.

If I thought there was a prayer of reaching an open mind I'd explain it to you. But why waste the time in this case? It's funny, the left calls her quitter and everything else they can think of to attack her, for someone who has so little chance of accomplishing anything she sure has the panties of the liberals in a wad, you can't deny that!! She scares the hell out of liberals which is just one of her many assets.

The rest of your post has nothing to do with my post at all.

I didn't know there was that restriction.

The only thing I'd say about her writing notes on her palm is "someone buy her a note card." Obama didn't use a teleprompter to talk to children, nor when he did off-the-cuff questions with the Congressional Republicans.

That comment is as accurate as the rest of what you have to say about Sarah. Let's see you squirm out of this:

Obama Teleprompter 6th Grade – Obama teleprompter 6th grade speech picture and video can be found here.President Barack Obama and his Education Secretary Arne Duncan appeared at the Graham Road Elementary School in Falls Church, Va., Tuesday on Jan. 19, 2010 and opted to use teleprompters to speak to the 11 year old kids.Obama and his staff brought along two teleprompters into the classroom along with the podium with the Presidential seal to chat with 30 sixth graders.
This is how the White House described the event.

In case you want to watch it: Obama Teleprompter 6th Grade

Now please, have the decency to apologize for all the liberal bilge directed at Sarah for having a couple of notes on her hand while she spoke from her heart, and apologize for lying in the above quote. Especially since the guy you support can't even speak from his heart when he's talking to kids, he needs a script. I don't think he has a heart.

Do you s'pose that Caribou Barbie could survive a Q&A period with the Democrats? I'd betcha that she'd flounder!

We're going to see, aren't we? The left is sure going to a lot of trouble to make sure she never makes it to that "q and a". What are they worried about?

Originally Posted by Michael_Q

Of course I do. I've been studying liberals and liberalism since I was old enough to know what politics was. Your blinded opinion of Sarah Palin is the typical liberal point of view, based on nothing but emotion and ideology.

:rolleyes: Please. Your definition of liberalism is clearly "things that I don't like or agree with." My opinion of Sarah Palin is based on her own words and behavior, nothing more.

If I thought there was a prayer of reaching an open mind I'd explain it to you. But why waste the time in this case? It's funny, the left calls her quitter and everything else they can think of to attack her, for someone who has so little chance of accomplishing anything she sure has the panties of the liberals in a wad, you can't deny that!! She scares the hell out of liberals which is just one of her many assets.

My mind is far more open than yours. I come to these forums to learn things. Ask Matt about my initial opinons on the NRA, as he had a direct impact on how I view the organization now.

As far as people being scared of Palin, the fear is that someone so clueless, arrogant, and deliberately ignorant could actually work her way into a position of real power. That is a thought that should scare any American, regardless of political leanings.

I didn't know there was that restriction.

Generally, if you're going to quote someone, it's because you're going to address their post. If you post something that's completely unrelated, you appear to be beating a strawman, which doesn't add to the value of the conversation.

That comment is as accurate as the rest of what you have to say about Sarah. Let's see you squirm out of this:

Obama Teleprompter 6th Grade – Obama teleprompter 6th grade speech picture and video can be found here.President Barack Obama and his Education Secretary Arne Duncan appeared at the Graham Road Elementary School in Falls Church, Va., Tuesday on Jan. 19, 2010 and opted to use teleprompters to speak to the 11 year old kids.Obama and his staff brought along two teleprompters into the classroom along with the podium with the Presidential seal to chat with 30 sixth graders.
This is how the White House described the event.

In case you want to watch it: Obama Teleprompter 6th Grade

Sigh.

The teleprompter was for a formal address he gave previous to his contact with the children. When he spoke with the children, it was informal, with no teleprompters in sight.

Now please, have the decency to apologize for all the liberal bilge directed at Sarah for having a couple of notes on her hand while she spoke from her heart, and apologize for lying in the above quote. Especially since the guy you support can't even speak from his heart when he's talking to kids, he needs a script. I don't think he has a heart.

First, I can't apologize for the behavior of others. I think that you're making more of a deal about it than anyone on the left. People saw it, said "oh, look, more evidence that Palin can't behave professionally," and moved on.

You presume to know who and what I support, but yet have never asked, nor have you shown the ability hear my answers anyway.

We're going to see, aren't we? The left is sure going to a lot of trouble to make sure she never makes it to that "q and a". What are they worried about?

What are they worried about? See above. You should worry, too.

Tell us, what specific stances, positions, and ideas that Palin has presented do you support?

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

the problem be two fold. taxes need to be adjusted to at least the rates that were had durin' the reagan era. and aye, cuttin' spendin' needs to take place, gradually, o'er time. that bloody debt shall have to be attacked on both fronts, me friend.

to bring this talk back to the Tea Party folks...if debt reduction be thar passion, they shall have to embrace both measures.

What I am about to write may make me sound stubborn and uncompromising. That is good – because that is exactly what I expect out of the next generation of conservatives.

Many people have been duped into believing that lowering taxes ‘cost’ the treasury and raising taxes increase revenues. Liberal Democrats have been pushing this lie upon the American people for generations. The truth, looking at the actual numbers, is that federal revenues continue rising regardless of tax policy. Only recessions lower the federal revenues. Morally speaking, it seems only right to allow people to keep more of the money they earn rather than tax them for no beneficial reason. (Other than influencing lifestyle with targeted tax breaks.) For that reason I will never support raising taxes.


Take a close look at the successful Clinton years. Did the tax increase cause revenues to explode? No. But look at the spending side. Seven straight years of increasing spending by only 2.5% to 3.5% per year. That is all it took to nearly eliminate deficits. Its the spending, stupid!

Notice how federal revenues were exploding during the middle of the George W Bush years. We pulled out of 9/11 and were growing the federal revenue by 12% and 14% per year until the bank crash. How could that happen after tax cuts? Because cutting taxes do NOT lower federal revenue. That is a myth portrayed by big-government politicians. Why did Republicans lose both houses of congress in 2006? Look at the spending increases per year. Their own party stopped voting for them.

We must concentrate on the spending side, and not BS the American people into believing that changes in tax policy will do anything to lower the deficits.

Originally Posted by SupPackFan

What I am about to write may make me sound stubborn and uncompromising. That is good – because that is exactly what I expect out of the next generation of conservatives.

Many people have been duped into believing that lowering taxes ‘cost’ the treasury and raising taxes increase revenues. Liberal Democrats have been pushing this lie upon the American people for generations. The truth, looking at the actual numbers, is that federal revenues continue rising regardless of tax policy. Only recessions lower the federal revenues. Morally speaking, it seems only right to allow people to keep more of the money they earn rather than tax them for no beneficial reason. (Other than influencing lifestyle with targeted tax breaks.) For that reason I will never support raising taxes.


Take a close look at the successful Clinton years. Did the tax increase cause revenues to explode? No. But look at the spending side. Seven straight years of increasing spending by only 2.5% to 3.5% per year. That is all it took to nearly eliminate deficits. Its the spending, stupid!

Notice how federal revenues were exploding during the middle of the George W Bush years. We pulled out of 9/11 and were growing the federal revenue by 12% and 14% per year until the bank crash. How could that happen after tax cuts? Because cutting taxes do NOT lower federal revenue. That is a myth portrayed by big-government politicians. Why did Republicans lose both houses of congress in 2006? Look at the spending increases per year. Their own party stopped voting for them.

We must concentrate on the spending side, and not BS the American people into believing that changes in tax policy will do anything to lower the deficits.

*shrugs*

matey, we may just have to agree to disagree here.

if yer on the wrong end 'o the Laffer Curve, then cuttin' tax rates indeed lowers the revenues to the government.

i also believe that the explosive, unprecedented spendin' o'er the last ten years or so, have made it impossible to just cut spendin' to close this gap.
nevermind the fact that risin' entitlement programs make this solution unfeasable...but our debt now be so mighty that thar ain't that much fat that can be cut.

if you try'n close the deficit gap by just cuttin' fat, pretty soon you'll be cuttin' organs too.

i'd favor restorin' the tax rate to the sanity 'o the Reagan era + cuttin' spendin'.

aye.

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by pramjockey

:rolleyes: Please. Your definition of liberalism is clearly "things that I don't like or agree with." My opinion of Sarah Palin is based on her own words and behavior, nothing more.

This is the third time I've responded to this but I keep getting diverted and lose what I've written. 4th time.

I'll start with an apology. You were right about the teleprompter and the kids it seems. You can understand how it looks if you look at the link I posted. I went to a source I trust and verified you're position. (It's bad enough I have to apologize, but this is the forth time I've had to write it for one g.d. post.)

My mind is far more open than yours. I come to these forums to learn things. Ask Matt about my initial opinons on the NRA, as he had a direct impact on how I view the organization now.

Well, you won't believe me but I learn a whole lot from these forums and discussions as well. I just learned something in the last paragraph!

As far as people being scared of Palin, the fear is that someone so clueless, arrogant, and deliberately ignorant could actually work her way into a position of real power. That is a thought that should scare any American, regardless of political leanings.

OK Pram, come on now. "Clueless" you say. Really? And Barry is what, informed? He's so wise he can't get a single thing past his own democrat ruled Congress, he loses every election he goes to bat for, he can't even convince the world to bring the Olympics here. Now come on...if anyone is clueless, it's this guy who got elected for one reason, HE'S BLACK. He has no qualifications. That truly IS clueless. Sarah Palin was elected numerous times to executive positions where she developed skills that obama clearly doesn't have. I mean really, who is clueless here? That position is certainly not the position an open mind would come to.

"Arrogant" you say. My God, you have got to be kidding. There is no one on this planet that is more arrogant than the anointed one who thinks he knows better than the masses and is doing his best to force feed an unwilling nation. THAT'S "ARROGANCE".

"Deliberately ignorant", you say!!!? Good grief Pram, you hate this woman so much you're grasping at insults to help bring her down and you don't even know her. Who the hell is "deliberately ignorant"? Be reasonable. That's not an "open mind" speaking.

First, I can't apologize for the behavior of others. I think that you're making more of a deal about it than anyone on the left. People saw it, said "oh, look, more evidence that Palin can't behave professionally," and moved on.

Let me ask you. Who deserves more respect, someone who put's a couple of reminder notes on her hand and then gives a long heart felt speech extemporaneously, or someone who has someone else write his words for him and then reads them from a teleprompter? Here's the chance to display your open mind.

You presume to know who and what I support, but yet have never asked, nor have you shown the ability hear my answers anyway.

Who do you support?

Tell us, what specific stances, positions, and ideas that Palin has presented do you support?

Who's "us"?

Sarah stands for all the standard conservative points of view that have been abandoned by the Republicans. Get government the hell out of the way, lower taxes, less regulation, strong military that's used properly, a return to the Constitution, etc.. all the things liberals are destroying.