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Thread: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
    Absolutely inappropriate. Attempts to reduce her humanity by nature of her gender are unacceptable, even if intended as some sort of "joke."

    Women have enough bullshit to put up with in this world. "Jokes" about their menses and some supposed impact they have on behavior or mood are beyond offensive.
    Hardly do I rate people that kill for enjoyment and not for survival to be civilized, much less an act for compassion.
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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsquare View Post
    I'm good with it...

    Like your Lord and Master said: “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun!"

    Once again you prove my point: liberals consider 'debate' as them telling us how to think and what to do, and the right saying and doing nothing.

    The left wing and the media (but I repeat myself) had been attacking Palin since day one, hour 2 of this tragedy and you don't think she should speak up?

    Bullshit!
    Yep, the left wing media has been on the attack since she first showed her face with McCain. Pretty obvious. The Left really does go bonkers over Palin. Although not me. I guess they need somewhere to direct their ire is all. She makes a good target. And it gives the left an interesting human to complain about. At least she is nice to look at, which helps. Still waiting for the nude pics to surface, that were photoshopped by the left as to show her stretch marks. And the Nazi tatto on her ass.

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by ConLib View Post
    Well, "I HATE", why do you constantly have to keep trying to tie him into a political party? Isn't true, never has been true, and never will be true.
    Why? Because you, and your ilk, are constantly trying to tie his actions to Palin or some other such nonsense. If you look at the types of books he preferred and other things about him you could say he was a far lefty. In reality, he's just a freaking wack-o just like, in reality, Palin nor any other conservative talking head is responsible for this kid's actions.
    "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." - John Maynard Keynes (admits his philosophy is not viable)

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewl View Post
    A comic can say so much.

    Right...because that isn't a two way street :rolleyes:
    "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." - John Maynard Keynes (admits his philosophy is not viable)

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by fishjoel View Post
    Right...because that isn't a two way street :rolleyes:
    Well leftist movements in NA usually do not take the form of gun-toting idiots spewing irrational hatred foaming at the mouth with misplaced anger.

    Andrew
    “...corporations and those who run them cannot stop exploiting resources and amassing wealth until they have... .I cannot finish this sentence, because the truth is that can never stop; like cancer, they can only continue to expand until they kill the host.”

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahasattva View Post
    I disagree with your assertion and the standard consensus of the left who have since Stalin was woken up to Hitler’s dishonor (by his breaking of the Soviet-German alliance that divided Poland between them with Hitler’s invasion of Russia) that Fascism, even in its Nazi form, are a creation of the right. Both Fascism and Progressivism were considered and called, the Third Way, at one time. Neither classical liberalism or Communism in its Soviet model, but a Third Way. Much of FDR’s New Deal was modeled on Mussolini’s Fascism, who was considered a great and wonderful darling by the American left, until he joined with Hitler. But am I alone in this view that Fascism is a creature of the left? No. Another, more wise and much closer to the events also consider Fascism, especially in its Nazi form, a creature of the left. While my argument is just a bit different than his, it is worth reading his views today.

    Nazi-Socialism[1]
    By Friedrich August von Hayek Spring 1933
    Hoover Institution, F. A. Hayek Papers, Box/Folder 105 : 10.

    Incomprehensible as the recent events in Germany must seem to anyone who has known that country chiefly in the democratic post-war years, any attempt fully to understand these developments must treat them as the culmination of tendencies which date back to a period long before the Great War. Nothing could be more superficial than to consider the forces which dominate the Germany of today as reactionary – in the sense that they want a return to the social and economic order of 1914. The persecution of the Marxists, and of democrats in general, tends to obscure the fundamental fact that National “Socialism” is a genuine socialist movement, whose leading ideas are the final fruit of the anti-liberal tendencies which have been steadily gaining ground in Germany since the later part of the Bismarckian era, and which led the majority of the German intelligentsia first to “socialism of the chair” and later to Marxism in its social-democratic or communist form.
    One of the main reasons why the socialist character of National Socialism has been quite generally unrecognized, is, no doubt, its alliance with the nationalist groups which represent the great industries and the great landowners. But this merely proves that these groups too -as they have since learnt to their bitter disappointment -have, at least partly, been mistaken as to the nature of the movement. But only partly because -and this is the most characteristic feature of modern Germany – many capitalists are themselves strongly influenced by socialistic ideas, and have not sufficient belief in capitalism to defend it with a clear conscience. But, in spite of this, the German entrepreneur class have manifested almost incredible short-sightedness in allying themselves with a movement of whose strong anti-capitalistic tendencies there should never have been any doubt.
    A careful observer must always have been aware that the opposition of the Nazis to the established socialist parties, which gained them the sympathy of the entrepreneur, was only to a very small extend directed against their economic policy. What the Nazis mainly objected to was their internationalism and all the aspects of their cultural programme which were still influenced by liberal ideas. But the accusations against the social-democrats and the communists which were most effective in their propaganda were not so much directed against their programme as against their supposed practice -their corruption and nepotism, and even their alleged alliance with “the golden International of Jewish Capitalism.”
    It would, indeed, hardly have been possible for the Nationalists to advance fundamental objections to the economic policy of the other socialist parties when their own published programme differed from these only in that its socialism was much cruder and less rational. The famous 25 points drawn up by Herr Feder,[2] one of Hitler’s early allies, repeatedly endorsed by Hitler and recognized by the by-laws of the National-Socialist party as the immutable basis of all its actions, which together with an extensive commentary is circulating throughout Germany in many hundreds of thousands of copies, is full of ideas resembling those of the early socialists. But the dominant feature is a fierce hatred of anything capitalistic -individualistic profit seeking, large scale enterprise, banks, joint-stock companies, department stores, “international finance and loan capital,” the system of “interest slavery” in general; the abolition of these is described as the “[indecipherable] of the programme, around which everything else turns.” It was to this programme that the masses of the German people, who were already completely under the influence of collectivist ideas, responded so enthusiastically.
    That this violent anti-capitalistic attack is genuine – and not a mere piece of propaganda – becomes as clear from the personal history of the intellectual leaders of the movement as from the general milieu from which it springs. It is not even denied that man of the young men who today play a prominent part in it have previously been communists or socialists. And to any observer of the literary tendencies which made the Germans intelligentsia ready to join the ranks of the new party, it must be clear that the common characteristic of all the politically influential writers – in many cases free from definite party affiliations – was their anti-liberal and anti-capitalist trend. Groups like that formed around the review “Die Tat” have made the phrase “the end of capitalism” an accepted dogma to most young Germans.[3]
    That the movement in more anti-liberal than anything else is closely connected with another important aspect of it — the anti -rational, mystical and romantic sentiment, which has been growing for years among the youth of Germany. The protest against “liberal intellectualism”, which was recently so strongly voiced by the students of the University of Berlin, was not an isolated aberration but a true expression of the feeling of great masses of the people.[4] It would be too long a story to go into all the different intellectual sources of the anti-rational tendencies in art and literature which have all converged -often to the amazement and consternation of their originators-in the Nazi movement. But it must be said that here again the main influence which destroyed the belief in the universality and unity of human reason was Marx’s teaching of the class-conditioned nature of our thinking, of the difference between bourgeois and proletarian logic, which needed only to be applied to other social groups such as nation or races to supply the weapon now used against rationalism as such. How completely this Marxian idea has permeated German thought can be seen from the fact that, during the past few years, it has actually been promoted, as “sociology of knowledge”, to the rank of a new branch of learning.[5] It is obvious that, from this intellectual relativism, which denied the existence of truths which could be recognized independently of race, nation, or class, there was only a step to the position which puts sentiment above rational thinking.
    That anti-liberalism and anti-rationalism are so intimately bound up with one another is easy to understand, and is, in fact, inevitable. If rule by force by some privileged group is to be justified, its superiority has to be accepted for it cannot be proved. But what is less easily understood – though of immense importance – is the fact illustrated by German and Russian development that the anti-liberalism which, when confined to the economic field, today has the sympathy of almost all the rest of the world, leads inevitably to a reign of universal compulsion, to intolerance and the suppression of intellectual freedom. The inherent logic of collectivism makes it impossible to confine it to a limited sphere. Beyond certain limits, collective action in the interest of all can only be made possible if all can be coerced into accepting as their common interest what those in power take it to be. At that point, coercion must extend to the individuals’ ultimate aims and ideas, and must attempt to bring everyone’s Weltanschauung into line with the ideas of the rulers.
    The collectivist and anti-individualistic character of German National Socialism is not much modified by the fact that it is not a proletarian but middle class socialism, and that it is, in consequence, inclined to favour the small artisan and shop keeper and to set the limit up to which it recognizes private property somewhat higher than does communism. In the first instance, it will probably nominally recognise private property in general. But private initiative will probably be hedged about with restrictions on competition so that little freedom will remain. Artisans, shop-keepers and professional men will, in all likelihood, be organized in guilds, like those of the medieval crafts, which will regulate their activities. In the case of the wealthier capitalists, state control and restriction of income will leave little more than the name of property, even while the intention of correcting the undue accumulation of wealth in the hands of individuals has not yet been carried out. Even at the present moment, state commissioners have been put in charge of many important industries and, if the more radical wing of the party has its way, the same is likely to happen in many other cases.[6] At the present time, when the National Socialist party has grown to such an enormous size, and accordingly embraces elements with very divergent views, it is, of course, difficult to say which views on economic policy hold the field, it will mean that the scare of Russian communism has driven German people unaware into something which differs from communism in little but name. Indeed, its more than probable that the real meaning of the German revolution is that the ling dreaded expansion of communism into the heart of Europe has taken place but is not recognised because the fundamental similarity of methods and ideas is hidden behind the difference in the phraseology and the privileged groups. For the present, the German people have reacted against the treatment received from the community of democratic and capitalistic countries by leaving that community.
    Nothing, however, would be less justifiable than that the nations of western Europe should look down on the German people because they have fallen victims to which, in this country seems a kind of barbarism. What must be realized is that this only the ultimate and necessary outcome of a process of development in which the other nations have been for a long time steadily following Germany – albeit at a considerable distance. The gradual extensions of the field of state activity, the increase in restrictions on international movements of both men and goods, sympathy with central economic planning and the widespread playing with dictatorship ideas, all tend in this direction. In Germany, where these things had gone furthest, and intellectual reaction, which will now hardly survive, had been definitely under way. The fact that the character of the present movement is so generally misjudged makes it seem likely that the reaction in other countries will speed up, rather than weaken, the operation of these tendencies which lead in the direction in which Germany is now going. So far, there seems little prospect that the reversal of these intellectual tendencies elsewhere will come in time to prevent other countries from following Germany in this last step also.

    [1] The memorandum may be found in the Hayek Paper, box 105, folder 10, Hoover Institution Archives. In the original memo quotation marks enclose “Nazi” in the German style, and Socialism was originally spelled “Sozialism” but was corrected – Ed.
    [2] Gottfried Feder (1883-1941) was an early economic advisor to Hitler. A fundamental element of his economic teaching was the concept of “interest slavery” and his recommendation that interest be abolished. Once he came to power, Hitler abandoned Feder’s program in order better to attract the support of German industrialists. — Ed.
    [3] For more of Die Tat, see chapter 12, note 41. — Ed.
    [4] The student protests in Berlin culminated in a boo0burning in the Opernplatz on the night of May 10, 1933. –Ed.
    [5] Karl Mannheim was one of the leading proponents of “the sociology of knowledge”. See especially his Ideology and Utopia: An Introduction to the Sociology of Knowledge, trans. Louis Wirth and Edward Shils, a volume in the series The International Library of Psychology, Philosophy, and Scientific Method (New York: Harcourt, Brace, 1936. -Ed.
    [6] In the first few months of Nazi rule, self-appointed Nazi party radicals simply marched into certain enterprises and took them over, usually granting themselves and their accomplices large salaries and other perks. Goering and the other Nazi leaders considered these self-styled Komisars dangerous, and by late 1933 had rooted them out. –Ed
    ---------------------

    tashi deleks,

    M
    Jesus, Mary, Joseph!!! WOW!!!

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by fishjoel View Post
    No I don't think her map was a bad thing or inappropriate. Using targets as a visual device is something that's been around for a long time. That type of format gets used, fairly often, in a non-political or non-gun related context all the time.

    As far as the quote...I don't see that as a very big deal as well. I'll break this down into two points:

    1. Context of the statement: If the statement was meant to be literal then the implication is that they have already opened fire. Since this isn't the case the statement has to be taken figuratively.

    2. Relating to your audience: I'm in the Army. We used the phrase, "tighten your shot group" for a multitude of applications. The overall meaning is to improve your performance and not make mistakes. I remember watching a video of Hillary Clinton speaking to a black audience and she was talking like she was trying to be a black minister or something. I was fairly embarrassed for her.

    3. Nucular is acceptable
    I don't agree about the map. I think it is inflammatory.

    I don't agree with the statement not being inflammatory because of the literal interpretation that 'reload' implies one has already shot the first bullet. That is a reach!!! And not very honest. You know this is not a good thing to say.

    I DO agree about Hillary. That was the most embarrassing moment in her career...other than, I think, the one where she said she had to 'dodge bullets' when she got off that plane. Both things were very, humiliating.

    Maybe NucUlar is acceptable technically? But let's face it. EVERYONE says NuclEAR.. I have only heard ONE person say NucUlar...and that is Bush.

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate View Post
    yarrrrRrrrrRRRR!

    ahoy me mateys!

    just to add me final two bits on this topic;

    i don't think that Mrs. Palin, or Mrs. Angle, or Mr. Stephen Broden or any other politicians who use incendiary wordin' want to kill anyone. i mean, i really find that sorta hard to believe, aye?

    i think thar kinda rhetoric just excites folks, and get'm feelin' that they be tough minded, no holds-barred sorta politicians, ones who are not afraid to FIGHT fer thar beliefs in freedom and liberty. its good stuff fer'm, and rallies folks to thar banner.

    its just when they put a target o'er someone, and that targeted person happens gets a bullet in thar noggin', it makes'm look kinda foolish.

    say fer example i said, "i wish Jviehe would just drop dead". i really don't want to see no physical harm come to him, 'tis just a bit 'o hyperbole....but then if Jviehe were to suddenly just drop dead, i'd end up lookin' kinda bad. in the same way, when our former skipper, President Bush said to the terrorists, "BRING'M ON!", i don't think he really wanted to see american soldiers blown to bits via IEDs o'er the followin' months, 'twas just a bit 'o bravado unfortunately didn't turn out too well fer him.

    and, ye know, i think Mrs. Palin does know she looks kinda bad in light 'o what happened in Arizona, and thats why her map came down offa her site, and thats why she went public with her video which had a defensive tone to it.

    and thats all thar be to this, sometimes hypbole can make a person look like an arse.

    aye!

    - MeadHallPirate
    ¸
    I like you.

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crela2 View Post
    Jesus, Mary, Joseph!!! WOW!!!
    Yeah, it's the "I win because I post more words than anyone will bother to read" approach.

    Except for when people actually read it and call him on it. Then he goes away.


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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by fishjoel View Post
    Why? Because you, and your ilk, are constantly trying to tie his actions to Palin or some other such nonsense. If you look at the types of books he preferred and other things about him you could say he was a far lefty. In reality, he's just a freaking wack-o just like, in reality, Palin nor any other conservative talking head is responsible for this kid's actions.
    Well, mommie he did it first, so I had to do it too"

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by fishjoel View Post
    Why? Because you, and your ilk, are constantly trying to tie his actions to Palin or some other such nonsense. If you look at the types of books he preferred and other things about him you could say he was a far lefty. In reality, he's just a freaking wack-o just like, in reality, Palin nor any other conservative talking head is responsible for this kid's actions.
    Ok, "I HATE", only the ignorant have to use these little words like "ilk" to group people of very diverse ideals into a neat little group that simple minds can "I HATE" them.

    The far-right, not the right nor the conservative, is the only ones on here that keep up this talk of "I HATE" about Palin. I could say he was Aristotle, that wouldn't make it any more true than you , "I HATE", trying to label him as a liberal.
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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrewl View Post
    Well leftist movements in NA usually do not take the form of gun-toting idiots spewing irrational hatred foaming at the mouth with misplaced anger.

    Andrew
    Show me a left wing group who leaps about in the puckerbrush yelling "uuuhhh raaawwww," shooting paint at each other, and rolling around on the ground saying "ya got me... I am a goner... Where is old Shep... arrrrggghhhh"

    Show me a leftist group who goes to funerals with "God hates fags" signs.

    Show me a leftist group who wants to blow up entire countries.

    Show me a leftist anywhere who would take the money for life-saving organ transplants and use the money to repair a sports stadium roof.
    "There is no gain in arguing with a poo flinging monkey. While his
    gibbering and raucous cries of victory may seem obnoxious in your ears
    as you walk away, he will soon be quietly sitting behind his bars again
    and licking his own feces off his fingers as you carry on with your day."

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
    Yeah, it's the "I win because I post more words than anyone will bother to read" approach.

    Except for when people actually read it and call him on it. Then he goes away.

    Actually, I thought he made a lot of sense. He did give examples of how even casual speech can come back to bite us. I thought is was very reasonable. Lots of times, we say.."I could kill her/him." We don't mean it. But, how many times have people gone to court and someone testified that you (or whoever) said those words about a person who had been murdered? It IS best to control your mouth and try not to threaten anyone..even in jest.

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    Quote Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
    Yeah, it's the "I win because I post more words than anyone will bother to read" approach.

    Except for when people actually read it and call him on it. Then he goes away.

    You know how long it would have taken me to type that

    But ya gotta like that guy,,,,,Mahatma(whatever),,,i skimed it,,and im impressed,,,
    but give me the 2600 page Health Care Bill,,,,forget about it,,,a pile of shit,,no doubt,,,,seriously I have No Doubt,,no not the musical group with the hot italian blond,,Gwen Stefani.

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    Re: Were Sarah Palin’s Remarks Appropriate?

    A lot of it, in my opinion, has to do with the climate created.

    If someone walked in to one of my mother's bridge group's card parties in the 1950s and said "Damn! Its cold outside!" there would have been a collective gasp from every woman there. Today. the great grand daughters of those same women would think nothing bad about hiring a male stripper for their Christmas Party.

    When the leaders use, foster, and encourage course actions than people get used to the idea of course action, and, Bob's your uncle, there's course action. The big gun owning states have big gun crime statistics. The states with low gun ownership have low gun crimes rates. Well, *duh*!
    "There is no gain in arguing with a poo flinging monkey. While his
    gibbering and raucous cries of victory may seem obnoxious in your ears
    as you walk away, he will soon be quietly sitting behind his bars again
    and licking his own feces off his fingers as you carry on with your day."

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