Thread: A Call To Action!

Well, we all know what the first step would be..............right?

So...

I 59 year old guy named Chip (no last name offered) a former IBM 'big iron' programer is going to lead the great revolution.

I was once financially strong. Friends and family would come to me for financial help which I was glad to provide when I often could. Now I'm the one in dire straits, but the recession has crippled everyone, and there is no one in sight to help me.

Though I've sent my resume far and wide the past four years, no company, it appears, will give me a chance. (maybe because you only know 20-30 year old programing languages, for computers 'no one is using? My sister stopped working on the AS-400 almost ten years ago) Maybe it's because I'm of pre-retirement age, and the high cost of the company co-pay for medical insurance for someone my age and the comparatively short time I would spend with a company before retiring combine to immediately exclude me from consideration. Maybe it's because my education is limited to a technical AA degree. I really don't know. (Yes you do, as we'll see in a moment)

I can do contract programming at home over the internet for any company anywhere that needs short-term project work in my limited specialty. But my specialty has been greatly outsourced in recent years to the degree where it is now almost the exclusive province of computer programmers in Mumbai, India, and Santiago, Chile, with American companies contracting for their services, and I simply cannot compete and afford a place to live here in America at significantly competitively reduced third-world poverty wages. (No, that's where they are still using AS-400's, the 3rd world)

Because I lack the ubiquitously required minimum five years paid experience in other computer programming and systems design disciplines this buyer's market demands, I'm having to face the harsh reality that my information systems career has likely come to a premature end .. and with it, my apparent ability to earn a living.

And who's fault is that?

To make sure we are all on the same page here... the guy that couldn't manage his own career, wants to lead the great revolution.

And he knows that he couldn't manage his own career. He tells us that he couldn't and didn't.

30 years ago Architects drew by hand... with pencils and triangles and t-squares. Today it's all computers...

I have no more sympathy for this ass-clown as I would for any Architect still drawing by hand and not being able to find work.

This guy couldn't lead me to free cold beer.

Who the fuck is this guy to be offering advice on how to run the world?

Originally Posted by chassisman

Well, we all know what the first step would be..............right?

If you're referring to replace Obama .. with a conservative of some sort .. I'm not sure everyone sees that as the first step ..

.. So, what is that first step, just in case I'm mistaken here?

Originally Posted by Phoenix

.. So, what is that first step, just in case I'm mistaken here?

Well... I'd say the first step has to be:

There is not now, nor will there EVER be a fucking revolution!

Take as long as you need with that one... just do it quietly.

Thanks!

We already had a revolution, the current crop of rabble are counter-revolutionaries.

Originally Posted by tsquare

So...

I 59 year old guy named Chip (no last name offered) a former IBM 'big iron' programer is going to lead the great revolution.



And who's fault is that?

To make sure we are all on the same page here... the guy that couldn't manage his own career, wants to lead the great revolution.

And he knows that he couldn't manage his own career. He tells us that he couldn't and didn't.

30 years ago Architects drew by hand... with pencils and triangles and t-squares. Today it's all computers...

I have no more sympathy for this ass-clown as I would for any Architect still drawing by hand and not being able to find work.

This guy couldn't lead me to free cold beer.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Who the fuck is this guy to be offering advice on how to run the world?

These quoted replies are meaningless and irrelevant. The first reply is obviously coming from a conservative/libertarian party animal, and the second copycat, who knows.

I simply found the OP link writer's presentation to be articulate, accurate, and compelling -- impressive all the way around. That's what's both meaningful and relevant.

Responding party animals, part of the 25% minority in America, need to remember that Thomas Paine, the great stimulating pamphlet writer who superbly presented the call to action that courageously created our country, was first a stay-maker (he made women's corsets!), then a privateer, then another try at corset making (but his business collapsed), then he tried his hand at supernumerary, then excise officer (from which he was fired!), back to stay-making (yawn), etc. .. until he was introduced to Benjamin Franklin .. and the rest is history.

Not everyone finds their great calling early on. Thomas Paine didn't .. and likely the same is true for the writer of the OP link.

What matters here is that there is obviously tremendous intelligence, integrity and courage in the OP link. What doesn't matter is what the individual did before he found his more true calling. The great Thomas Paine was a nobody .. before his first pamphlet was well recognized.

It wouldn't surprise me if the guy has been introduced to our own modern day Benny F, which got him going, too. The ad hominems directed at the OP link writer are simply absurd.

It's not what the person used to do that matters, though often a person's background leads them to where they truly belong.

What matters is the words he writes, the obvious truth of the matter presented, and the right and true call to action, all presented by the OP link, the only way we'll ever get ourselves out of this mess.

Jealous party animals would do well to stop fearing what's going to happen to the wingy Republicans/Democrats when the centrists take government back for the great majority of Americans, and consider instead that what happens to America and Americans is really the bottomline of importance .. and re-read the last two sentences of the OP.

Originally Posted by tsquare

Well... I'd say the first step has to be:

There is not now, nor will there EVER be a fucking revolution!

Take as long as you need with that one... just do it quietly.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Commodore

We already had a revolution, the current crop of rabble are counter-revolutionaries.

I just re-scanned the OP link .. and nowhere in it is there a call for "revolution" :rolleyes:

The call to return American jobs to Americans and the accurate assessment that only by bringing centrists to power within the framework of our existing goverment structure is what the OP link is calling for.

Fighting back against The Evil Global Empire in no way requires a "revolution" against America.

Ousting dysfunctional wingers from government office at the ballot box is simply not a "revolution".

Again, party animals, who comprise merely 25% of American voting-age people, have an obvious fear-of-power-and-control-loss when the great centrist majority comes to power.

That's understandable.

It is understandable that wing party animals would indeed demean the OP link and its writer and members of the associated movement.

What's sad is that they would do so at the expense of fellow Americans and America itself.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

and the second copycat, who knows.

Allow me to fill you in.

I read the link and I found it to be an empty, vapid collection of buzzwords that sounded very good but had no actual meaning. No plan is proposed, only a laundry list of problems and a proposal for a new political party that isn't Republican or Democrat. It reads like a political speech and I cant say I find it terribly convincing; basically "WE will do things different because WE get it!" Which is what virtually every political figure since Plato's time and beyond has said.

I dont see anything really new, I dont see anything innovative. I'll give him a clap for trying and for being engaged, props for that. But beyond a higher level of political involvement than your average person...I see no reason to laud the author. And he is CERTAINLY no Thomas Paine.

What matters here is that there is obviously tremendous intelligence, integrity and courage in the OP link. What doesn't matter is what the individual did before he found his more true calling. The great Thomas Paine was a nobody .. before his first pamphlet was well recognized.

Paine was at least educated and had an understanding of the underlying concepts that helped shape the revolution he was part of. The author's background is...what?

It's not what the person used to do that matters, though often a person's background leads them to where they truly belong

I personally (I cant speak for others) am not criticizing him based on what he's done, I'm criticizing because the work he has put forth is seriously lacking and published in a condescending manner, the author ASSUMING himself to be this font of wisdom and knowledge. In my experience, when one considers one's self to be so wise you should be giving other people advice, you've missed something very critical.

What matters is the words he writes, the obvious truth of the matter presented, and the right and true call to action, all presented by the OP link, the only way we'll ever get ourselves out of this mess.

How? He hast presented any real plan except "organize a party that isnt Republican or Democrat."

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Allow me to fill you in.

With party-animal irrelvancies and continued ad hominems.

Sadly, you likely concur with much of the OP link presentation ..

.. It seems to me that just don't like that it's not coming from one of your own.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I read the link and I found it to be an empty, vapid collection of buzzwords

As is to be expected, since it didn't come from one of your own. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Hoplite

that sounded very good

There's a hint for you.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

but had no actual meaning.

Because it wasn't written by one of your own. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Hoplite

No plan is proposed,

Absolutely false.

A document at this level is not supposed to be a detailed political platform.

It accurately and correctly calls for the following plan of action:

Originally Posted by The OP Link

There are many things we can do right now to successfully combat The Evil Global Empire, none of which are a mystery to anyone with an intelligent grasp of political science. The effective combination of the right measures to fight off-shoring, in-sourcing, illegal immigration, etc., courageously enacted and toughly enforced through both incentives and penalties and without succumbing to either crippling tax rate hikes or a government jobs program boondoggle, could be quickly successful in halting future job-loss, stimulating the development of new domestic businesses and returning previously lost jobs to American citizens and legal immigrants, thereby creating recovery for America.

The right things to do, however, are opposed by both the liberal Multi-Cultural Internationalists (the sole power-holders in the liberal Democrats) and the conservative Corporate Global Expansionists (the sole power-holders in the conservative Republicans). Indeed, as long as liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans respectively, continue to dominate the halls of power in Washington as they presently do, we have no hope at all of avoiding the looming disastrous depression that awaits us once a critical mass of cascading joblessness has soon been reached.

Thus we must act now to create a new political movement calibrated at the healthy center of the political spectrum, where the majority of Americans live, to relieve the decadent wing-parties of governing power and to place representatives of the great majority of Americans into power to successfully combat The Evil Global Empire and save The United States of America.

I am looking for people who realize this is what we must do, who understand the facts of the matter and grasp the truth and its meaning presented herein, who realize we can no longer delay to act, who are not willing to sit idly by waiting for "others" to rescue them .. "others" who will never appear .. and who are now ready to do all that they themselves can do to fight The Evil Global Empire, to prevent the loss of more American jobs, and to return lost American jobs to the American citizens and legal immigrants who are the rightful owners of those jobs.

We need to find a way to effectively organize -- and fast -- to effect election of our true-majority representatives in 2012. Though that doesn't give us much time, it can still be done. We simply have to work hard to get the job done.

We can't wait for the 2014 election cycle or the next national election in 2016. Then .. will most certainly be too late.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

only a laundry list of problems and a proposal for a new political party that isn't Republican or Democrat.

Again, your demeaning party-animal spin is both obvious .. and inaccurate.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

It reads like a political speech

Yes, I agree -- it does .. and quite a good one.

So did a goodly amount of Thomas Paine's work.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

and I cant say I find it terribly convincing;

Of course you can't say you find it "terribly convincing" -- it wasn't written by one of your fellow idealogues.

I do find it sad, however, that having read a number of your posts elsewhere, you've written a number of things that the OP writer presents as issues.

But, again, he's not one of "your people" ... .

Originally Posted by Hoplite

basically "WE will do things different because WE get it!" Which is what virtually every political figure since Plato's time and beyond has said.

Which, of course, includes our country's founders, etc.

Form is irrelevant.

Substance is what truly matters.

The OP link writer nails the substance of the matter ..

.. And that makes all the difference.

So far it's your arguments .. that are vapid.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I dont see anything really new, I dont see anything innovative.

Perhaps then, you simply don't see.

I've been around awhile, and I've never seen anything like this.

Please present some detail excerpts that show that replacing the wingers with centrists to fight The Evil Global Empire to return American jobs to Americans lost in The Great Recession "isn't really new" or "isn't innovative".

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I'll give him a clap for trying and for being engaged, props for that

How truly magnanimous of you.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

But beyond a higher level of political involvement than your average person...I see no reason to laud the author.

Again, your party-animalism is flaring up.

Even if you were an independent of one, I really sense from you a feeling of "I wish I'd written that -- it's really good".

But .. you didn't ..

.. So ...

:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Hoplite

And he is CERTAINLY no Thomas Paine.

There was only one Thomas Paine .. but I find the OP writer equally compelling, and less over the top than Paine.

But, mostly, that's kind of beside the point.

What matters is the OP link writer's accurate presentation of both our current dismal situation and the only real way out.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Paine was at least educated

Paine dropped out of grammar school at the age of 13 to become an apprentice stay-maker, according to Wiki, and never went back to school prior to his pamphlets.

I suppose a grammar school education qualifies as "educated".

Whatever else Paine learned was apparently self-study.

The OP link writer, according to his biography, at least got a college AA .. and likely later learned what he learned too, like Paine, through self-study and other relevant experience.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

and had an understanding of the underlying concepts that helped shape the revolution he was part of. The author's background is...what?

Obviously very similar to Paine's .. with, obviously, more formal education.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I personally (I cant speak for others) am not criticizing him based on what he's done,

Which, of course, is meaningless, since Paine had done nothing prior to his first political work.

Again, I sense you're criticizing the OP link writer because he nailed the matter well, and "your people" haven't.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I'm criticizing because the work he has put forth is seriously lacking and published in a condescending manner, the author ASSUMING himself to be this font of wisdom and knowledge. In my experience, when one considers one's self to be so wise you should be giving other people advice, you've missed something very critical.

Again, your ad hominems directed at the OP link writer continue. :rolleyes:

Yet you've not really quoted the substance of the presentation and criticized substantively.

The OP link is both well written and accurate. It's recommendation correctly follows.

So far nearly all of the critical effort in this thread has been of the ad hominem nature.

Let's see who is capable of a substantive critique.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

How? He hast presented any real plan except "organize a party that isnt Republican or Democrat."

Absolutely and obviously false.

The reason you see only the form of removing Dems and Repubs from power, ignoring the valid substantive reasons for doing so, implicates your party-animalism as one of the two.

Again, it cannot be expected that pre-existing party animals, even independent party animals of one, can ever give an intelligent valid critique of the substance of the OP link presentation.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

With party-animal irrelvancies and continued ad hominems.

Sadly, you likely concur with much of the OP link presentation ..

.. It seems to me that just don't like that it's not coming from one of your own.

I do agree that there are serious problems and that many of the things the article lays out are very serious problems that need to be addressed...but the article says nothing on HOW we do that and therein lies my objection to your proclaiming the author to be some hither-to undiscovered genius. Especially since I'm willing to bet you wrote it yourself, Harry.

Absolutely false.

A document at this level is not supposed to be a detailed political platform.

If it presented even one sound idea, I'd be responding differently.

It accurately and correctly calls for the following plan of action:

Except that isnt a plan. The only thing that comes close is the first paragraph and if you really break it down...it's basically just political buzzwords strung together in a coherent format; "if we just fix all these problems, then we wont have them as problems" is what it's essentially saying. It's talking a lot without actually saying anything.

Again, your demeaning party-animal spin is both obvious .. and inaccurate.

You're not too familiar with my posting history, are you?

Yes, I agree -- it does .. and quite a good one.

So did a goodly amount of Thomas Paine's work.

If making speeches solved problems, everyone would be a politician.

Of course you can't say you find it "terribly convincing" -- it wasn't written by one of your fellow idealogues.

I dont care about the source of an idea. I've gone through almost any political text I can get my hands on to see what ideas are out there. But in this instance, my own political views are irrelevant; the article still doesn't say anything meaningful or that we aren't already aware of.

I do find it sad, however, that having read a number of your posts elsewhere, you've written a number of things that the OP writer presents as issues.

As I said, I dont disagree with (most of) the issues on the list in that they are problems we need to solve. But with issues where I do posses enough understanding about the problem to make a sound judgement, I can actually present a solution. You do not do this in the article.

Which, of course, includes our country's founders, etc.

Form is irrelevant.

Substance is what truly matters.

The OP link writer nails the substance of the matter ..

.. And that makes all the difference.

Form is completely relevant. The website comes off like some cranky old man trying to lecture the young 'uns about how to really run the world, the form is not a good one and thus people are not going to take it seriously. This is a very important aspect of modern politics; you may have the cure for cancer but unless you present it in the right way, the rest of the world will flip you the bird and go about it's business. It's sad, but that's the reality of modern politics unless something DRASTIC changes.

The site reads like intellectual masturbation; it was put together to please no one but the author and judging from the traffic figures, that's all it's doing.

Perhaps then, you simply don't see.

I've been around awhile, and I've never seen anything like this.

Then I suggest you broaden your scope of reading.

Even if you were an independent of one, I really sense from you a feeling of "I wish I'd written that -- it's really good".

Except...it's not. I mean it's well-written from a stylistic viewpoint, but in terms of content I just dont see anything that unique or insightful. If you had shown some innovative ways to FIX the problems you presented, I'd be much more interested.

There was only one Thomas Paine .. but I find the OP writer equally compelling, and less over the top than Paine.

But, mostly, that's kind of beside the point.

What matters is the OP link writer's accurate presentation of both our current dismal situation and the only real way out.

If you're going to self-promote, be subtle about it. It works a lot better.

Paine dropped out of grammar school at the age of 13 to become an apprentice stay-maker, according to Wiki, and never went back to school prior to his pamphlets.

I suppose a grammar school education qualifies as "educated".

Whatever else Paine learned was apparently self-study.

The OP link writer, according to his biography, at least got a college AA .. and likely later learned what he learned too, like Paine, through self-study and other relevant experience.

Then why does the author apparently not apply this vast experience?

Which, of course, is meaningless, since Paine had done nothing prior to his first political work.

Again, I sense you're criticizing the OP link writer because he nailed the matter well, and "your people" haven't.

I've explained why I'm criticizing your article.

Again, your ad hominems directed at the OP link writer continue. :rolleyes:

Yet you've not really quoted the substance of the presentation and criticized substantively.

The OP link is both well written and accurate. It's recommendation correctly follows.

So far nearly all of the critical effort in this thread has been of the ad hominem nature.

Let's see who is capable of a substantive critique.

You mean let's see who is willing to intellectually felatiate the author.

Absolutely and obviously false.

Not as I have previously demonstrated.

The reason you see only the form of removing Dems and Repubs from power, ignoring the valid substantive reasons for doing so, implicates your party-animalism as one of the two.

Again, it cannot be expected that pre-existing party animals, even independent party animals of one, can ever give an intelligent valid critique of the substance of the OP link presentation.

Which, again, tells me you are not familiar with my posting history here as I am neither Republican nor am I a Democrat.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

I do agree that there are serious problems and that many of the things the article lays out are very serious problems that need to be addressed

Name them.

Post substantively.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

...but the article says nothing on HOW we do that

False, obviously.

First of all, it's not an "article", as you demean -- it's a call to action.

Second, I've already posted substantively quoting from the OP link itself that proves you literally in error on the matter, thus settling the matter.

Originally Posted by Hoplite

and therein lies my objection to your proclaiming the author to be some hither-to undiscovered genius. Especially since I'm willing to bet you wrote it yourself, Harry. If it presented even one sound idea, I'd be responding differently. Except that isnt a plan. The only thing that comes close is the first paragraph and if you really break it down...it's basically just political buzzwords strung together in a coherent format; "if we just fix all these problems, then we wont have them as problems" is what it's essentially saying. It's talking a lot without actually saying anything. You're not too familiar with my posting history, are you? If making speeches solved problems, everyone would be a politician. I dont care about the source of an idea. I've gone through almost any political text I can get my hands on to see what ideas are out there. But in this instance, my own political views are irrelevant; the article still doesn't say anything meaningful or that we aren't already aware of. As I said, I dont disagree with (most of) the issues on the list in that they are problems we need to solve. But with issues where I do posses enough understanding about the problem to make a sound judgement, I can actually present a solution. You do not do this in the article. Form is completely relevant. The website comes off like some cranky old man trying to lecture the young 'uns about how to really run the world, the form is not a good one and thus people are not going to take it seriously. This is a very important aspect of modern politics; you may have the cure for cancer but unless you present it in the right way, the rest of the world will flip you the bird and go about it's business. It's sad, but that's the reality of modern politics unless something DRASTIC changes. The site reads like intellectual masturbation; it was put together to please no one but the author and judging from the traffic figures, that's all it's doing. Then I suggest you broaden your scope of reading.
Except...it's not. I mean it's well-written from a stylistic viewpoint, but in terms of content I just dont see anything that unique or insightful. If you had shown some innovative ways to FIX the problems you presented, I'd be much more interested. If you're going to self-promote, be subtle about it. It works a lot better. Then why does the author apparently not apply this vast experience? I've explained why I'm criticizing your article. You mean let's see who is willing to intellectually felatiate the author. Not as I have previously demonstrated.

Irrelevant and meaningless continued ad hominem .. and of the most bizarre, extreme kind I've seen in awhile.

Your continued attacks on the person while posting nothing substantive in quote-response of the OP link itself .. indicates you are likely frightened by something about the relevant meaninfulness of the OP link ..

Originally Posted by Hoplite

Which, again, tells me you are not familiar with my posting history here as I am neither Republican nor am I a Democrat.

.. No matter where on which wing you align.

If you take exception to the substance of the OP link, post quotes from it and explain why you have a problem with it -- stay susbstantive, sans ad hominems.

Your failure to do so proves my points ..

.. And makes me wonder if you have an anti-American agenda, like the Multi-Cultural Internationalists or the Corporate Global Expansionists. If so, what is it? So far, your posts have been rather Cylonic, so to speak.

Try posting with referenced quotes, staying sbstantive.

That might be more productive, both for discussion, and to remove doubt about your apparent disloyalty to America.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Under the heading of "somebody's gotta do it": The New Political Movement To Save America

The challenge here is that things will likely have to get a lot worse for historically politically inactive Americans to take action.

But I think now is the time to at least begin mobilizing this massive great majority.

And no one document more appropriately presents the truth of the matter better than this one.

So why would any American refuse to join this movement, I mean aside from them maybe being a liberal, libertarian, conservative, tea partier, Democrat, Republican ... .

But still, we've all seen the handwriting on the wall; every American has. By now we know that no current breed of Washingtonian is going to do it for us, what has to be done soon.

If not me, who? If not now, when?

This may be the most exciting time politically to be an American .. and the 25% who can't detach ideologically from their present party animal will lose out on a great experience.

Got heroes?

I would have to agree that the silent majority is finally getting off their couches and from behind their computer screens and participating for a change, and it's a welcome change. Finally! A movement directed at the right people from those who helped bail out a financial system that is working against the people.

Tea Partiers have a lot in common with this stuff. I think it's beyond left and right. These people are angry with the fact that the country's living under capitalist-socialism, where losses are socialized at the top while gains are privatized up there too. Doesn't make sense, and even the teabaggers should stand for that, too.

A nice first step would be to demand that those responsible for the big financial institutions at the time of the crash be prosecuted and jailed, their golden parachutes confiscated and returned to the people.