Thread: Is Newt calling for Amnesty?

Originally Posted by wooyarn

One item from your link: 60 percent said they had federal taxes withheld from their pay.

I could be wrong, but to have Federal taxes taken from their paychecks means they have to have a SSN. Illegals can not get a SSN which means they are using a stolen SSN which translates to stolen identity. This could and will cause problems for the person that they stole the identity from.

You are wrong, having taxes withheld does not necesarly require a SSN.

From that you go to a sweeping generalization that there is SSN fraud ongoing and that only the illegal immigrants are doing it.

I work in Afghanistan for a US company. I am paid out of the US office in US dollars to my US bank account. Payroll was deducting federal and state taxes from my paycheques for a while. They deducted taxes for all the non US citizens for a period of time and about half the time do so for a new hire. I do not have a SSN Therefore your first assertion is not true.

From that you make a sweeping generalization about all illegal immigrants who report having taxes deducted from their paycheques.

Another equally possible explanation is that the employers who are illegally hiring the illegal immigrants arenot remitting the withheld taxes to the government. Perhaps the illegal employers are simply pocketing the money and getting even cheaper labour. Ever think of that or ever consider that it is also illegal to hire an illegal immigrant? Where is the ire and outcry about illegal employers?

A third explanation is that the worker may have simply made up a SSN and the employer never checked the SSN for validity. Remember when you used to buy a wallet and there was a fake SSN card in it? That was the actual SSN of a worker at the plant and at one time there were several tens of thousands (72,000 if memory serves) people using that number.

A fourth possible explanation is that the employer made up the SSN. My previous US employer sent me a W-2 form with what looked like a SSN in the SSN box. I checked it out and it was not a valid SSN (outside the allowable range).


Even if there was a SSN involved, a real one or not, there is nothing proving that the illegal immigrant was the one guilty of the fraud. It could be a simple mistake or fraud on the part of the illegal employer.

Your logic is unsound as are your conclusions based on faulty logic, bad assumptions and sweeping generalizations.

Originally Posted by wooyarn

I find it very telling that the people that were singing Newts praise the last few days are staying away from this thread. Those are the ones I wanted to hear from.

You got to admit that Newt has been kicking ass and taking names in the debates.

Study: 70% of Texas

Illegal Aliens Get More Welfare Benefits Than Citizens

Crime victims of illegal aliens

This place is a madhouse. I waited with a kid at this ER for 6 hours. His breathing improved and we went home without service and went to our doctor the next morning.
snopes.com: Parkland Memorial Hospital and Illegal Immigrants



Illegal is rewarded in Texas and I'm paying for it.

Why don't you move to a state where the undocumented immigrants aren't so mistreated? That way their US-born children wouldn't need so much welfare. And your article on a few alleged crimes really provides no comparative detail so how do you know they are worse than any other demographic? It is also quite misleading. While Malvo was in this country illegally, he met Mohammed in Aruba and moved here specifically to live with him. And Mohammed was the ringleader who was a US citizen. Neither of these are big problems here in Florida, but we don't have very many vigilantes who are so upset by them taking jobs nobody else wants either. Those here without proper papers deliberately maintain a very low profile for quite obvious reasons.

What does the maternity rate at Parkland have to do with the ER? The Parkland program consists of nine clinics which specifically address the needs of women who have difficulty receiving obstetrical aid anyplace else. Do you think undocumented immigrants should give birth by themselves without any medical help if the need arises?

Are you claiming that Texas hospitals are so overcrowded that someone with a dire medical condition cannot receive aid for 6 hours? Or are you upset that you had to wait that long for an apparently minor condition that didn't require emergency aid?

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

The Parkland program consists of nine clinics which specifically address the needs of women who have difficulty receiving obstetrical aid anyplace else. Do you think undocumented immigrants should give birth by themselves without any medical help if the need arises?

If they'd stay in their own country, the taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for them to give birth to anchor babies that we'll be responsible for for the next 18+ years. This bleeding heart shit is why so many illegals are here now and are breeding like rabbits.

Originally Posted by Texan

Newt's a smart guy, but illegals have to go. All public services except emergency healthcare should be denied to illegals. I shouldn't have to pay for their crime.

Does it cost more to try to find them all and ship them out, or does it make better business sense to get them on the books paying taxes and contributing to the economy, since they already do?

How much would it cost to find 12-15 million people?

ahoy all,

two things me hearties....

1) Mr. Gingrich's observations on how to handle them illegal immigrants seems reasonable.

2) if Mr. Obama had made the same proposal, i wonder how the right leanin' folk 'o USPO woulda responded?

- MeadHallPirate

Originally Posted by RDK

You are wrong, having taxes withheld does not necesarly require a SSN.

From that you go to a sweeping generalization that there is SSN fraud ongoing and that only the illegal immigrants are doing it.

I work in Afghanistan for a US company. I am paid out of the US office in US dollars to my US bank account. Payroll was deducting federal and state taxes from my paycheques for a while. They deducted taxes for all the non US citizens for a period of time and about half the time do so for a new hire. I do not have a SSN Therefore your first assertion is not true.

From that you make a sweeping generalization about all illegal immigrants who report having taxes deducted from their paycheques.

Another equally possible explanation is that the employers who are illegally hiring the illegal immigrants arenot remitting the withheld taxes to the government. Perhaps the illegal employers are simply pocketing the money and getting even cheaper labour. Ever think of that or ever consider that it is also illegal to hire an illegal immigrant? Where is the ire and outcry about illegal employers?

A third explanation is that the worker may have simply made up a SSN and the employer never checked the SSN for validity. Remember when you used to buy a wallet and there was a fake SSN card in it? That was the actual SSN of a worker at the plant and at one time there were several tens of thousands (72,000 if memory serves) people using that number.

A fourth possible explanation is that the employer made up the SSN. My previous US employer sent me a W-2 form with what looked like a SSN in the SSN box. I checked it out and it was not a valid SSN (outside the allowable range).


Even if there was a SSN involved, a real one or not, there is nothing proving that the illegal immigrant was the one guilty of the fraud. It could be a simple mistake or fraud on the part of the illegal employer.

Your logic is unsound as are your conclusions based on faulty logic, bad assumptions and sweeping generalizations.

Not worth responding to. You twisted everything I said.

I didn't say all illegals, I said the 60%.

"Remember when you used to buy a wallet and there was a fake SSN card in it? That was the actual SSN of a worker at the plant and at one time there were several tens of thousands (72,000 if memory serves) people using that number."
No, I don't remember this. Do you have a link showing this really happened, I would really like to see it.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Does it cost more to try to find them all and ship them out, or does it make better business sense to get them on the books paying taxes and contributing to the economy, since they already do?

How much would it cost to find 12-15 million people?

It wouldn't cost that much.
Start with Tyson Foods or some of the Corporate Farms. Fine them 10K or more per illegal. That would more then cover the cost of deportation. Wait a month or two and hit the same companies again, if they still have illegals working there, double the fine, throw the CEO in jail for a year or two. Do this a few times and the other companies would fire their illegals. No jobs and they would go home on their own.

How many illegals does Canada have?

Originally Posted by wooyarn

It wouldn't cost that much.
Start with Tyson Foods or some of the Corporate Farms. Fine them 10K or more per illegal. That would more then cover the cost of deportation. Wait a month or two and hit the same companies again, if they still have illegals working there, double the fine, throw the CEO in jail for a year or two. Do this a few times and the other companies would fire their illegals. No jobs and they would go home on their own.

How many illegals does Canada have?

Now that is a real good solution, however, what you want to do is have US companies do what our government fails to do. Close the border. Now lets take it a step further, Arizona and other states have come up with new legislation to crack down on illegals and guess what, again the federal government took them to court to stop them from doing anything with illegals. Lets go further, our government will not export illegals unless they have several felony convictions. Oh wait their's more, a police officer can not ask for proof of citizenship when in contact with a potential illegal.

Now tell me how in the hell is a company supposed to clean up our illegal immigration problem, when they cannot ask for proof of citizenship or otherwise. You want our US companies to do what all the states and our federal government fails to do. Now that is really good logic, pass the buck to someone else rather than the federal government who's job it is to control our border which it fails to do. And not only that it condemns and takes to court any state from trying to put policies in place to assist the federal government to do it's job it refuses to do. Meaning it does not want to control the illegal problem.

And did you not know their are sanctuary cities in the US that harbor illegals, and what do you say to them, Nothing. So you turn to our US Companies to do the job and not once suggest our federal government, states, or cities do anything.

All I can say is your out of touch.

Originally Posted by Formaldehyde

Why don't you move to a state where the undocumented immigrants aren't so mistreated? That way their US-born children wouldn't need so much welfare.
If I leave my home, who will pay their bills?

Are you claiming that Texas hospitals are so overcrowded that someone with a dire medical condition cannot receive aid for 6 hours? Or are you upset that you had to wait that long for an apparently minor condition that didn't require emergency aid?

No. I'm claiming that Parkland Hospital is so overcrowded with illegals that people with dire medical conditions cannot receive aid for 19 hours until they die of a heart attack
Man, 58, Dies of Cardiac Arrest After 19-Hour Emergency Room Wait | Fox News

Originally Posted by MeadHallPirate

ahoy all,

two things me hearties....

1) Mr. Gingrich's observations on how to handle them illegal immigrants seems reasonable.

2) if Mr. Obama had made the same proposal, i wonder how the right leanin' folk 'o USPO woulda responded?

- MeadHallPirate

1. Will it seem reasonable when you are waiting behind them for medical treatment for your sick kids?

2. I am just as against it with Newt as I was with 0bama. I'd vote for Newt before 0bama because of other issues, but I would only vote for Newt if I had to hold my nose and choose the lesser of 2 evils.

Originally Posted by Forplay

Now that is a real good solution, however, what you want to do is have US companies do what our government fails to do. Close the border. Now lets take it a step further, Arizona and other states have come up with new legislation to crack down on illegals and guess what, again the federal government took them to court to stop them from doing anything with illegals. Lets go further, our government will not export illegals unless they have several felony convictions. Oh wait their's more, a police officer can not ask for proof of citizenship when in contact with a potential illegal.

Now tell me how in the hell is a company supposed to clean up our illegal immigration problem, when they cannot ask for proof of citizenship or otherwise. You want our US companies to do what all the states and our federal government fails to do. Now that is really good logic, pass the buck to someone else rather than the federal government who's job it is to control our border which it fails to do. And not only that it condemns and takes to court any state from trying to put policies in place to assist the federal government to do it's job it refuses to do. Meaning it does not want to control the illegal problem.

And did you not know their are sanctuary cities in the US that harbor illegals, and what do you say to them, Nothing. So you turn to our US Companies to do the job and not once suggest our federal government, states, or cities do anything.

All I can say is your out of touch.

I guess next time I need to use crayons and paper and draw real slow so you can keep up.
Where did I say it's up to the companies to fine them selves and put their own CEO's in jail.

I admit I didn't say the Gov would be the ones going to the companies checking for illegals. I guess I figured the most intelligent adults would understand that.
Please forgive me for confusing you so much.