Thread: WI Recall of Gov. Walker Produces 1 MILLION Signatures

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

You are welcome to emote whatever you want, BUT, I have given ample proof that Walker's attack on teachers was not motivated because unions in Wisconsin are 'strangling government budgets'

Maybe I missed something, what proof.

Wisconsin public unions have had collective bargaining since 1959...AND...there is no malfeasance.

It is well known all across this country that public employee unions has exchange their vote for higher wages and bennifits. This of course was between liberal legislators and their favorite cow the unions

Teachers in Wisconsin make less than counterparts in the private sector; 25% less, and most have a higher level of education.

Do you have proof to back this comment up? When you say less by 25% are you adding in all the benefits? Proof

The

same for other public workers in that state. So WHERE is the strangling government budgets?

Unions

If what you say is true, and collective bargaining has been going on since 1959

So, it's when the abuse of exchange of votes for higher wages and benefits is what matters, democrats purchasing votes is no new news. Hell, Obama gave the unions the auto's for their vote, and now he gives the environmentalists Keystone for their vote. He pad off people in congress to get his Obamacare passed. Buying union votes is nothing new.

You are being fed right wing propaganda and 'spin', and you swallow every drop.

I think you need to get away from your union for a second and look across this country and see the abuse of unions and liberal legislators have done to this country in exchanging votes for benefits.

Originally Posted by Haplo

And so, I reccommend that we privatize the school system, with vouchers for disadvantaged kids. That way, we wouldn't have to argue over a big state-funded boondogle of an education program, each school would be able to charge what it could, pay its teachers what it could . . . and if anyone didn't agree with prices or salaries, why, you just don't go to that school and it doesn't affect you at all.

Yes I agree, further a union teacher can not be fired, and when they are hired they automatically make tenure. This was all set up by liberal legislators in exchange for the union vote. With teachers unions and liberal legislators it's not about teaching the kids but rather keeping bad teachers employed.

Now for a system you suggest, it would never be supported by the union lovers. Why because giving the kids a good education is not a priority of the union, only keeping members on the payroll no matter how bad they are.

Then to make matters worse, we keep pouring more and more money into these public schools, and in return we get less and less results. Teachers unions

Originally Posted by 9aces

Where does 100% of every dollar they receive in their paychecks come from?



Wages they are paid by whom?


Private sector employees have to pay their own way, AND the state workers way.

Most state budgets are constrained by balanced budget and can't just spend whatever they'd like as the federal government does. Thus they have to either increase income, or decrease costs. One or the other.

I'm guessing you don't balance your own checkbook.

I'm guessing you never took a course in critical thinking...

Where does your paycheck come from?
What entitles you to your bosses money?
If your boss needs to have some work done on his pool, would you mind if he cuts your pay to help pay for it?
State employees with contracts have negotiated a deal with their employer, it doesn't matter where the employer gets the money, that's a totally separate issue.
If they negotiate that the state will pay their health care, that isn't a gift from the state, it's compensation for their work, it's part of the deal.
They perform the work, they get paid, it's exactly the same as anyone else.

Here's the one thing we know about Governor Walker, a million of the people he works for signed a petition to have him fired.
How's that for a job review?

Originally Posted by Forplay

Maybe I missed something, what proof.




It is well known all across this country that public employee unions has exchange their vote for higher wages and bennifits. This of course was between liberal legislators and their favorite cow the unions



Do you have proof to back this comment up? When you say less by 25% are you adding in all the benefits? Proof

The

Unions



So, it's when the abuse of exchange of votes for higher wages and benefits is what matters, democrats purchasing votes is no new news. Hell, Obama gave the unions the auto's for their vote, and now he gives the environmentalists Keystone for their vote. He pad off people in congress to get his Obamacare passed. Buying union votes is nothing new.




I think you need to get away from your union for a second and look across this country and see the abuse of unions and liberal legislators have done to this country in exchanging votes for benefits.

I'm not your nanny. I have posted everything I said. It is all in this thread.

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.
Edmund Burke

Why don't read?

Care to give it another shot?

I read it. I also put in bold all the verbiage that indicated that it was all future tense.

Originally Posted by Criminal Rock

Well then I guess every teacher, union member, and citizen of Wisconsin who want Scott out are just shit for brains who couldn't give away a barrel of gold if they had one, eh? :rolleyes:

And by the way, I listed a few examples of my own in post 116 if you care to cherry pick them to. Even so, Bfgrn cited many negative inevitable consequences which are actually very accurate. I think it is a childish thing to write off his examples as factless without providing any facts of your own, and then say dumb shit like "I don't think you know how this works" when really Bfgrn used common sense to explain the negative reactions to Walkers policies.

Seriously, if you said to me you were about to ignite a tank of gasoline in your hand and I said it will cause an explosion and possibly kill us, you'd just remark "No, no, no...I don't think you know how this works. I don't see anything in the present tense based on fact!"

I mean, if you genuinely believe Scott's policies are justifiable then for fucks sake please justify them, there is no need to play games and act like these people are irrational.

I read your post #116 and the only thing you have in there is that he wants voter ID laws. The rest is you complaining that he is ruining their collective bargaining rights. Well, duh, he busted the unions. That, in itself, is not a negative effect. Has teacher salary gone down? Have teachers been fired causing bigger classroom sizes? You know, real things, not imagined ones. Oh, and just to show how you're wrong about this "inevitable" BS then here.....

Let me google that for you

Originally Posted by goober

I'm guessing you never took a course in critical thinking...

Where does your paycheck come from?
What entitles you to your bosses money?
If your boss needs to have some work done on his pool, would you mind if he cuts your pay to help pay for it?
State employees with contracts have negotiated a deal with their employer, it doesn't matter where the employer gets the money, that's a totally separate issue.
If they negotiate that the state will pay their health care, that isn't a gift from the state, it's compensation for their work, it's part of the deal.
They perform the work, they get paid, it's exactly the same as anyone else.

It actually does matter where the money comes from. With a private business the money is derived from profits. With the government it's derived from taxes. So when public sector unions fight to get better benefits or higher pay they are actually fighting to raise taxes. Additionally, if a private business is insolvent, it will eventually go bankrupt. When that happens all of the employees lose their job and that's about it. The government simply borrows more and more and more, much further than what any private business would be allowed to do. Also, when the government finally goes bankrupt, we are all screwed.

Here's the one thing we know about Governor Walker, a million of the people he works for signed a petition to have him fired.
How's that for a job review?

Here's one thing you don't know about Walker. They didn't get one million signatures, it's BS. Like I already wrote, when I visited my sister's family in Wisconsin this Christmas my 13 year old niece told me how a lady was trying to pressure her into signing the petition. She even told the lady that she was only 13 and the petitioner did not care.

Originally Posted by goober

I'm guessing you never took a course in critical thinking...

Systems analysis. Every company who has hired me to improve their operations would laugh at you right now.

Originally Posted by goober

Where does your paycheck come from?

Paid for by clients for the service I provide. No service, no payment. Pretty simple.

Originally Posted by goober

What entitles you to your bosses money?

Nothing.

Originally Posted by goober

If your boss needs to have some work done on his pool, would you mind if he cuts your pay to help pay for it?

Nope, because I'd simply take my talents elsewhere should he prove so foolish.

Originally Posted by goober

State employees with contracts have negotiated a deal with their employer, it doesn't matter where the employer gets the money, that's a totally separate issue.

Actually it does matter. If their employer can't fund them because they don't steal enough, well then they should be a better thief, or spend less.

Originally Posted by goober

If they negotiate that the state will pay their health care, that isn't a gift from the state, it's compensation for their work, it's part of the deal.
They perform the work, they get paid, it's exactly the same as anyone else.

Except everyone else has funds taken from them by force to pay those state workers.

Originally Posted by goober

Here's the one thing we know about Governor Walker, a million of the people he works for signed a petition to have him fired.
How's that for a job review?

It says a lot of people want something for nothing.

Originally Posted by fishjoel

It actually does matter where the money comes from. With a private business the money is derived from profits. With the government it's derived from taxes. So when public sector unions fight to get better benefits or higher pay they are actually fighting to raise taxes. Additionally, if a private business is insolvent, it will eventually go bankrupt. When that happens all of the employees lose their job and that's about it. The government simply borrows more and more and more, much further than what any private business would be allowed to do. Also, when the government finally goes bankrupt, we are all screwed.

What does that have to do with getting paid for a job, when I work for a government agency, am I causing taxes to go up? But when I work for a private company it's different, I do the same work, I spend the time and I bill for my hours, just the same. I do the work and I get paid, and it doesn't matter if the got the money from a taxpayer, borrowed it from China, got it selling groceries or from the collection plate on Sunday, I do the work I get paid. Where they get it is immaterial.

Here's one thing you don't know about Walker. They didn't get one million signatures, it's BS. Like I already wrote, when I visited my sister's family in Wisconsin this Christmas my 13 year old niece told me how a lady was trying to pressure her into signing the petition. She even told the lady that she was only 13 and the petitioner did not care.

For all these anecdotes, here's something you should know, they only need 500,000 signatures, and there has never been a case where over a third of the sigs were found invalid.
Of course some signatures won't pass muster, but unless you have evidence of massive fraud and you don't, this recall is going on the ballot.

Originally Posted by 9aces

Systems analysis. Every company who has hired me to improve their operations would laugh at you right now.



Paid for by clients for the service I provide. No service, no payment. Pretty simple.



Nothing.



Nope, because I'd simply take my talents elsewhere should he prove so foolish.


Actually it does matter. If their employer can't fund them because they don't steal enough, well then they should be a better thief, or spend less.


Except everyone else has funds taken from them by force to pay those state workers.


It says a lot of people want something for nothing.

Thanks for proving my point...

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to add the fairy dust...the 'invisible hand'. So Wisconsin taxpayers, who have an education system with a revenue shortfall, now would have that exacerbated by having to also cover profits for private entities.

You MUST be able to come up with some pretty amazing math!

Is that all that a private corporation is to you? Just a blood-sucking parasite that extracts profits from anything it can, and to hell with the consequences? ((If you're looking for examples, you can find a few big ones that fit that exact description, but when you count all the smaller businesses as well, the blood-sucking corporations are a clear minority.))

Part of the deal with capitalists, (the part that makes it work out for you) is that they have to compete with each other. This is what spurs innovation, drives down costs, preserves quality, etc. This is why the private markets provide us with products that we want.

And you do know what a profit is, right? It is simply money that hasn't been spent yet. Revenues - Expenses = Profit. It happens when you don't blow all the money that you make, and most smart business people end up spending that money on their businesses anyways in an attempt to enhance the value of their product (and thus also, their competitiveness). It has nothing at all to do with exploitation. (Unless you're talking about those few examples I mentioned earlier.)

It's funny that liberals routinely criticize business leaders for running a tight ship and keeping a little in reserve.

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

Wisconsin State Journal

Organizers file more than 1 million signatures to recall Walker

Hardball with Chris Matthews

Organizers filed over 1 million signatures in today's deadline in the Wisconsin effort to recall Gov. Scott Walker.

Only 540,000 were required while Walker opponents had targeted 720,000 to make sure they would have enough in case of any invalid signatures.

What's more, there are enough signatures to recall the state's Lieutenant Governor and 4 state senate Republicans including the majority leader.

Scott Walker says this recall election will be "one of the defining moments in the national political landscape". He's right about that.

Great. If the dems get it back they can figure out how to balance their budget without cutting anything significant. Go Dems!!!!!

Originally Posted by Haplo

Is that all that a private corporation is to you? Just a blood-sucking parasite that extracts profits from anything it can, and to hell with the consequences? ((If you're looking for examples, you can find a few big ones that fit that exact description, but when you count all the smaller businesses as well, the blood-sucking corporations are a clear minority.))

Part of the deal with capitalists, (the part that makes it work out for you) is that they have to compete with each other. This is what spurs innovation, drives down costs, preserves quality, etc. This is why the private markets provide us with products that we want.

And you do know what a profit is, right? It is simply money that hasn't been spent yet. Revenues - Expenses = Profit. It happens when you don't blow all the money that you make, and most smart business people end up spending that money on their businesses anyways in an attempt to enhance the value of their product (and thus also, their competitiveness). It has nothing at all to do with exploitation. (Unless you're talking about those few examples I mentioned earlier.)

It's funny that liberals routinely criticize business leaders for running a tight ship and keeping a little in reserve.

Like I said...fairy dust. You DON'T have a marketplace that is expandable to create profits, you have a finite amount of revenue for education. Every school, whether private or public will have overhead costs and wages. Is the magic fairy going to find PhD's that will teach for $10,000?