Thread: WI Recall of Gov. Walker Produces 1 MILLION Signatures

Originally Posted by adaher

The stated ideology hasn't changed, the willingness to pursue it has changed. Think of containment, a policy started under Truman to deal with the Soviet Union. Reagan changed the policy from containment to rollback. The same could be said for domestic policy. Republicans have shifted increasingly from just trying to prevent the welfare state from growing any further, to actively trying to roll it back a little.

When Republicans finally sign onto a bill that rolls back all the corporate welfare they made possible for their shadow masters and benefactors, then I'll believe they want to roll back the welfare state.

Privatizing Social Security doesn't do it because that's not welfare, that's actually something people have paid into that they expect to be there for them when they retire.

In any case, SS and Medicare didn't get the US into the pickle it's in, unfettered corporate greed and the deregulation of major investment firms did.

Originally Posted by 9aces

You know BD, I hope you live long enough to have the liberals get real control of this country. You last words will probably be "how could I have been so stupid".

I wouldn't worry. We've had the neocons and the libs control this country at different points in time and neither side admitted stupidity.

Originally Posted by jviehe

I just dont beleive it. The republican party has anything from liberal and moderates, to radical libertarians. I dont see where the stated ideology had changed. In fact look at the 1952 platform. Same basic principles.

Liberal Republicans? WHO? I remember when one of my Senators was Jacob Javits, a liberal Republican. There is not a single Republican today who would utter the word liberal in anything but a derogatory way.

I just posted an excerpt from the 1956 Republican Party Platform in post #27, did you read it?

Originally Posted by adaher

The stated ideology hasn't changed, the willingness to pursue it has changed. Think of containment, a policy started under Truman to deal with the Soviet Union. Reagan changed the policy from containment to rollback. The same could be said for domestic policy. Republicans have shifted increasingly from just trying to prevent the welfare state from growing any further, to actively trying to roll it back a little.

These two quotes show clearly how the GOP has changed.

Then:
"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Now:
"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

Originally Posted by Jason Marcel

When Republicans finally sign onto a bill that rolls back all the corporate welfare they made possible for their shadow masters and benefactors, then I'll believe they want to roll back the welfare state.

Republicans did lead the way to ending ethanol subsidies. They also voted against both the bank bailouts and the auto bailouts. This is all part of the move to a more principled conservatism that has happened over the decades.

In any case, SS and Medicare didn't get the US into the pickle it's in, unfettered corporate greed and the deregulation of major investment firms did.

Going forward, the primary driver of our deficits is Medicare. And like it or not, there is increasing support in the Democratic Party for a transition to premium support rather than single payer.

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

These two quotes show clearly how the GOP has changed.

Then:
"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Now:
"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

First, two very different figures, a President and head of a tax advocacy group. Second, labor's political activities turned the public against them by the 70s, which is why Norquist can say what he said and no one raise an eyebrow.

As a matter of fact, a certain campaign finance bill which you supposedly support, was in fact designed to crush labor as a political entity, as well as business.

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

These two quotes show clearly how the GOP has changed.

Then:
"Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Now:
"We're going to crush labor as a political entity"
Grover Norquist - Republican economic guru and co-author of the GOP's 'Contract with America'

In its full context Eisenhower was talking about the American worker- Not merely the Union worker- Note too he praises "lower taxes" as part of the prescription for success! Note too how you attempt to make it seem that Norquist is discussing the same labor- quite disingenuous of you! Norquist in a an avid smaller government- lower tax republican who sees union labor as the problem with labor.

"Under the Republican Administration, as our country has prospered, so have its people. This is as it should be, for as President Eisenhower said: "Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."

The Eisenhower Administration has brought to our people the highest employment, the highest wages and the highest standard of living ever enjoyed by any nation. Today there are nearly 67 million men and women at work in the United States, 4 million more than in 1952. Wages have increased substantially over the past 3 1/2 years; but, more important, the American wage earner today can buy more than ever before for himself and his family because his pay check has not been eaten away by rising taxes and soaring prices.

The record of performance of the Republican Administration on behalf of our working men and women goes still further.

Originally Posted by Eclipse

In its full context Eisenhower was talking about the American worker- Not merely the Union worker- Note too he praises "lower taxes" as part of the prescription for success! Note too how you attempt to make it seem that Norquist is discussing the same labor- quite disingenuous of you! Norquist in a an avid smaller government- lower tax republican who sees union labor as the problem with labor.

"Under the Republican Administration, as our country has prospered, so have its people. This is as it should be, for as President Eisenhower said: "Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."

The Eisenhower Administration has brought to our people the highest employment, the highest wages and the highest standard of living ever enjoyed by any nation. Today there are nearly 67 million men and women at work in the United States, 4 million more than in 1952. Wages have increased substantially over the past 3 1/2 years; but, more important, the American wage earner today can buy more than ever before for himself and his family because his pay check has not been eaten away by rising taxes and soaring prices.

The record of performance of the Republican Administration on behalf of our working men and women goes still further.

You have the NERVE to talk about full context? After you hacked out a tiny portion of what YOU linked to? You only selected what supports today's anti-worker GOP. WHY do you think Scott Walker is facing recall? WHY do you think over one hundred thousand working people showed up at Walker's door???

This is from YOUR link:

GOP: Labor and collective bargaining are good for America

"Under the Republican Administration, as our country has prospered, so have its people. This is as it should be, for as President Eisenhower said: "Labor is the United States. The men and women, who with their minds, their hearts and hands, create the wealth that is shared in this country—they are America."


The Eisenhower Administration has brought to our people the highest employment, the highest wages and the highest standard of living ever enjoyed by any nation. Today there are nearly 67 million men and women at work in the United States, 4 million more than in 1952. Wages have increased substantially over the past 3 1/2 years; but, more important, the American wage earner today can buy more than ever before for himself and his family because his pay check has not been eaten away by rising taxes and soaring prices.

The record of performance of the Republican Administration on behalf of our working men and women goes still further.

The Federal minimum wage has been raised for more than 2 million workers.

Social Security has been extended to an additional 10 million workers and the benefits raised for 6 1/2 million.

The protection of unemployment insurance has been brought to 4 million additional workers. There have been increased workmen's compensation benefits for longshoremen and harbor workers, increased retirement benefits for railroad employees, and wage increases and improved welfare and pension plans for federal employees.

In addition, the Eisenhower Administration has enforced more vigorously and effectively than ever before, the laws which protect the working standards of our people.

Workers have benefited by the progress which has been made in carrying out the programs and principles set forth in the 1952 Republican platform.

All workers have gained and unions have grown in strength and responsibility, and have increased their membership by 2 millions.

Furthermore, the process of free collective bargaining has been strengthened by the insistence of this Administration that labor and management settle their differences at the bargaining table without the intervention of the Government.

This policy has brought to our country an unprecedented period of labor-management peace and understanding.

We applaud the effective, unhindered, collective bargaining which brought an early end to the 1956 steel strike, in contrast to the six months' upheaval, Presidential seizure of the steel industry and ultimate Supreme Court intervention under the last Democrat Administration.

The Eisenhower Administration will continue to fight for dynamic and progressive programs which, among other things, will:

Stimulate improved job safety of our workers, through assistance to the States, employees and employers;

Continue and further perfect its programs of assistance to the millions of workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers;

Strengthen and improve the Federal-State Employment Service and improve the effectiveness of the unemployment insurance system;

Protect by law, the assets of employee welfare and benefit plans so that workers who are the beneficiaries can be assured of their rightful benefits;

Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex;

Federally-assisted construction, and maintain and continue the vigorous administration of the Federal prevailing minimum wage law for public supply contracts;

Extend the protection of the Federal minimum wage laws to as many more workers as is possible and practicable;

Continue to fight for the elimination of discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry or sex;

Provide assistance to improve the economic conditions of areas faced with persistent and substantial unemployment;

Revise and improve the Taft-Hartley Act so as to protect more effectively the rights of labor unions, management, the individual worker, and the public.

The protection of the right of workers to organize into unions and to bargain collectively is the firm and permanent policy of the Eisenhower Administration."

-- 1956 Republican National Platform

Would today's GOP call Ike a flaming liberal?

The GOP has always regarded Ike as a moderate and he was regarded as such back then. Remember that both parties wanted Ike simply because they wanted to win.

Originally Posted by adaher

The GOP has always regarded Ike as a moderate and he was regarded as such back then. Remember that both parties wanted Ike simply because they wanted to win.

Ike is dead, and so is the Republican party he led. It is now the party of authoritarians, union busters, anti-middle class and corporate puppets. If you think Grover Norquist is just a tax advocate, you need to do some investigating.

Fmr. GOP Sen. Alan Simpson Calls Republican Refusal To Raise Revenue ‘Absolute Bullshit’


June 30, 2011

Former GOP Sen. Alan Simpson blasted his intransigent GOP colleagues on the Hill today for failing to reach a deal on the deficit. The blunt-talking co-chairman of President Obama’s bipartisan fiscal reform commission slammed Republicans for kowtowing to Americans for Tax Reform head Grover Norquist (“Republicans can’t be in thrall to him”) and pushed Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner to stand fast on the August 2 deadline.

Surveying the lay of the current fiscal land, Simpson said, “We’re at 15 percent revenue, and historically it’s been closer to 20 percent.”

He added, “We’ve never had a war without a tax, and now we’ve got two. … Absolute bullshit.”

More

The spending levels under The Obama are vastly larger than the cost of just his wars. Stop spending, period.

Originally Posted by Damn Yankee

The spending levels under The Obama are vastly larger than the cost of just his wars. Stop spending, period.

You folks on the right have NO clue about economics. The WORST thing to do right now is austerity. It will contract the economy even more and plunge us into a depression.

You must all be decedents of Andrew Mellon...

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Originally Posted by Bfgrn

You folks on the right have NO clue about economics. The WORST thing to do right now is austerity. It will contract the economy even more and plunge us into a depression.

You must all be decedents of Andrew Mellon...

Contemplating in retrospect the wreck of his country’s economy and his own presidency, Herbert Hoover wrote bitterly in his memoirs about those who had advised inaction during the downslide:

The ‘leave-it-alone liquidationists’ headed by Secretary of the Treasury Mellon…felt that government must keep its hands off and let the slump liquidate itself. Mr. Mellon had only one formula: ‘Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate’.…He held that even panic was not altogether a bad thing. He said: ‘It will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people’.


The Federal Reserve took almost no steps to halt the slide into the Great Depression over 1929–33. Instead, the Federal Reserve acted as if appropriate policy was not to try to avoid the oncoming Great Depression, but to allow it to run its course and “liquidate” the unprofitable portions of the private economy.

In adopting such “liquidationist” policies, the Federal Reserve was merely following the recommendations provided by an economic theory of depressions that was in fact common before the Keynesian Revolution and was held by economists like Friedrich Hayek, Lionel Robbins, and Joseph Schumpeter.

What NEVER works is what Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon did to bring on the Great Depression...liquidate, and austerity. They listened to the 'Austrian' school. Unless you also believe Medieval blood letting save lives?

Economic Policy Under Hoover

Except history shows that conservatives are right and liberals are wrong.........No matter how many so called smart people say other wise you cannot spend your way out of debt.