Thread: Why does America have to defend Israel if the Bible is true?

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Case in point, now we can use religion as an excuse to go to war. (Even though there will be plenty of other reasons to fight outside of religion.)

Get over yourself. No one is saying we should kill all Muslims cause God commands it. I get tired of this dishonest tactic. Just cause I believe in God does not mean I am wrong. I also believe children shouldn't be molested does that mean I am wrong cause I believe in God?

Originally Posted by thanatos144

Get over yourself. No one is saying we should kill all Muslims cause God commands it. I get tired of this dishonest tactic. Just cause I believe in God does not mean I am wrong. I also believe children shouldn't be molested does that mean I am wrong cause I believe in God?

Childish (and how very Christian of you) ...

You were the one that said "I don't think God wants us to sit around and watch it happen again in the name of Alla." I have every right to examine that with plenty of historical evidence of and using the point of view of religion leading to conflict. And here we are again with someone suggesting "God" would not want us to allow the Jews to be killed off, thus a suggestion of going to war. Unless you are referring to some other approach to deal with aggression, which it does not sound like you are saying. (UN santion approach, or something.)

Originally Posted by JDJarvis

I remember a couple-few decades ago when a lot of evangelicals didn't have much that was positive to say about Israel and it was the left insisting we must stand in defense of Israel... times change and so does political dogma.

It was more than a couple of decades ago. Back then, antisemitism was still fairly prevalent in the US and most evangelicals were Southern Democrats. It was primarily Reagan that got most of the evangelicals lined up in support of Israel once they joined the Republican Party as part of the Southern Strategy.

Of course, the more cynical observers will point out that the Apocalypse cannot occur until the Jews control that region again.

Originally Posted by Sluggo

Childish (and how very Christian of you) ...

You were the one that said "I don't think God wants us to sit around and watch it happen again in the name of Alla." I have every right to examine that with plenty of historical evidence of and using the point of view of religion leading to conflict. And here we are again with someone suggesting "God" would not want us to allow the Jews to be killed off, thus a suggestion of going to war. Unless you are referring to some other approach to deal with aggression, which it does not sound like you are saying. (UN santion approach, or something.)

In case it escaped you the thread was about the bible........How is believe God wouldn't want us to watch millions being killed for being Jews make me wrong? Are you under the impression that God does want millions of Jews killed just cause they are Jews?

Originally Posted by thanatos144

In case it escaped you the thread was about the bible........How is believe God wouldn't want us to watch millions being killed for being Jews make me wrong? Are you under the impression that God does want millions of Jews killed just cause they are Jews?

Ok, you tell us what "God" and your bible would want us to do about "Alla" aggression against the Jews.

Originally Posted by darth omar

The next biggest assumption is assuming your assumptions about such matters are correct.

Or yours.

Originally Posted by thanatos144

Well it depends on if you think millions of people deserve to be murdered cause they are Jews......Unlike most liberals and Paul supporters I dont think God wants us to sit around and watch it happen again in the name of Alla.

It depends on if you think our soldiers should die and innocent people overseas should die (the actual innocent ones NOT connected to terrorism) when a bomb goes astray or if we make a mistake during a battle. I love how you profess these "Christian principles" of being pro-life, but don't give two shits about the soldiers dying in these wars or the innocent "collateral damage" of these wars overseas. Jesus didn't advocate war and death. He was the Prince of Peace after all, correct?

Bible:

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

Luke 6:35

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked."

This is the problem with learning pre-selected scriptural verses as opposed to spending 20 years of your life reading from Genesis to Malachi, not to mention all five books of David psalms, etc, etc, etc.

The Jewish Scriptures are replete with the examples of righteous people helping others, both on a personal and well as national basis.

The Scriptures are also quite explicit that when one enters a conflict against an ENEMY, one KILLS that enemy with the least amount of self-sacrificial casualties.
Yes, the Scriptures approve of collateral damage and NOT warriors accompanied by politicall correct, agenda driven, reporters.

God loves all people until they prove beyond doubt that they are not redeemable.

As for all that indiscriminate murdering that everybody howls about, it might behoove one to actually read God's opnion of why he is about to do something.
I don't care whether or not one is an atheist, but if you're gonna reveiew a movie that I might want to see, try actually watching the movie first before you write the review.

And no, the U.S. DOESN'T have to defend Israel; God will do just fine. He always has.

Originally Posted by ericams2786

It depends on if you think our soldiers should die and innocent people overseas should die (the actual innocent ones NOT connected to terrorism) when a bomb goes astray or if we make a mistake during a battle. I love how you profess these "Christian principles" of being pro-life, but don't give two shits about the soldiers dying in these wars or the innocent "collateral damage" of these wars overseas. Jesus didn't advocate war and death. He was the Prince of Peace after all, correct?

Bible:

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."

Luke 6:35

"But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked."

Jesus' moral teaching was directed at the individual and almost exclusively dealt with mans relationship with other individuals or mans relatioship with God. The US has no 'reward in Heaven', for lending to the poor or turning the other cheek, for example.

Jesus stayed away from all of that in His teaching. And He did so for a reason. Nations, as often as not, are ruled by wicked men; hence, a turn the other cheek kind of 'national pacifism' would only ensure that the people He loved would suffer under tyranny and oppression.

And that, is clearly not God's will.

If you follow the Gospel According to John, it's all predestined anyway, regardless of one's deeds.
In fact, drop the Book of James and deeds account for nothing.

Originally Posted by ericams2786

The biggest assumption however, is assuming their is a God/god at all.

I can assure you there is a God, yet sometimes it really doesn't matter that God is ... as so many people do believe in God and they use their "good" books to direct their actions in life. So whether some would choose to assume God is non-existent ... God's existence is irrelevant ... and people will make choices based upon their faith.

Originally Posted by darth omar

Jesus' moral teaching was directed at the individual and almost exclusively dealt with mans relationship with other individuals or mans relatioship with God. The US has no 'reward in Heaven', for lending to the poor or turning the other cheek, for example.

Jesus stayed away from all of that in His teaching. And He did so for a reason. Nations, as often as not, are ruled by wicked men; hence, a turn the other cheek kind of 'national pacifism' would only ensure that the people He loved would suffer under tyranny and oppression.

And that, is clearly not God's will.

Of course Jesus' teachings dealt with the individual...the idea of collective salvation is ludicrous. That is why it's just as ludicrous to claim that the United States has a moral obligation to fulfill the will of God on Earth and spread Democracy through the world at the point of a gun because we are God's favorite nation. People on this forum often talk about us being the moral champions of the world and that if we don't stop oppression where ever it may exist we will somehow suffer the wrath of God.

So if you concede that Jesus' teachings are dealing with the individual, how is it our duty as Americans to stop oppression and tyranny around the world, spread Democracy and "Christian values", and nation build? It isn't, we should leave well enough alone unless attacked or if there is an eminent danger of attack, if so, we declare war, kick ass, and leave when we are done. It is not our moral duty to "stamp out tyranny where ever it exists". Not only is it ridiculous, it is a never-ending quest that we cannot possibly afford and furthermore, it is simply impossible. The best we can do as a nation is be TRULY free here, be a moral people, and set a good example for others in the world.

Originally Posted by michael h

I can assure you there is a God, yet sometimes it really doesn't matter that God is ... as so many people do believe in God and they use their "good" books to direct their actions in life. So whether some would choose to assume God is non-existent ... God's existence is irrelevant ... and people will make choices based upon their faith.

Hey to each his own, I don't care if you are religious or not. I respect your right to worship whatever God/god you may chose. I respect ALL religions. I am just sick and tired of hypocrites who claim to be "Christ-like" and "pro-life" while advocating for pre-emptive war, death, destruction, and the funding of other countries' tax payer funded abortions (like Israel, our foreign aid helps fund Israel's welfare state, which includes tax payer funded abortions). One cannot truly claim to be "pro-life" and advocate for war while ignoring the collateral damage that is caused with the deaths of innocents not involved in hostilities.