ethics / morality aside, Vick broke the law (should it be proved in court that he knowingly engaged in dog fighting -- and with all of the defendants turning state's evidence -- it sure looks like an airtight case -- the Feds, that's the big boys, he is up against have IIRC something like a 97% conviction rate)...

so when he broke the law, he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law -- and Roger Goodel should kick his sorry ass out of the NFL when that happens (based on the new "good behavior" / "harming the NFL reputation" policy that has been recently implemented). the fact that he is a total scumbag is irrelevant.

Vick's NFL career is on life support and the sooner he gets kicked out the better. Total low-life.

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Well, rights is a human invention. Humans define rights, humans grant rights. Humans grant some animals rights not to be treated in a cruel way by other humans. That is what I mean by rights.

Then there are also some things resembling rights in the social interaction of some animals. Animals who live in a pack have some general rules that you can call rights and duties vis-a-vis one another.

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President Josiah Bartlet: Sweden has a 100% literacy rate. 100%! How do they do that?
Leo McGarry: Maybe they don't and they can't add.

They are currently saying he has agreed to plea and is accepting full responsibility. Just breaking, so I don't know how correct it is..

Aside from all of that, the man is looking at prison time. I'd be a bit more worried about that, than whether or not he will be playing football.


At the end of a day, only 3 words..what a waste.

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MESMERISM, n. Hypnotism before it wore good clothes, kept a carriage and asked Incredulity to dinner. - Ambrose Bierce

Maybe Vick can get on some sort of work release program; he only needs Sundays and an occasional Monday off. Practice can be moved to the correctional facility.

Looks like the scumbag has agreed to plead guilty.

I hope the NFL's gambling rules results in a lifetime ban on that piece of shit...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

What a deal that would be! Also he could get say a year in and then another year's probation if he got lucky but it all boils down to whether the NFL will let him play, i very much doubt they would if he were in jail at the time!

I think its gonna go one way or another; he either plays again in 2 years or so or he never picks up a football again as an NFL quarterback. If that's the case he may well go onto Arena or something like that.

Michael Vick puts the fannies in the seats, he's out of the NFL for one year, two years tops. That's enough to make the point, and still cash the ticket.
The good thing for Vick, is that prison and offtime only delay his career, he will still play the same number of years, because the wear and tear on his body will be next to nothing in prison, compared to the NFL.

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“ The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state.”

Adam Smith , The Wealth of Nations 1776

"We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics"
FDR's second Inaugural Address

Perhaps not.

I've heard more than a few people talking about the fact that, since this was "gambling", it could be enough to win him a lifetime ban from the NFL...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Which precisely no NFL GM is gonna wanna touch him with a barge pole, think of how many fans who are animal lovers or have their own pets would be angry, it would certainly drive more than a few fans away.

I think the plea deal is the first step in an appearance of contrition. After a year or two out, Vick will be healed, and appear with Betty White on a doggie commercial or two. Give the Eagles a few years of of losing seaons, his fans will forgive him, and everything will be dismissed as a youthful indescretion. Remember, we are not dealing with the average schmo here, the guy has talent in a moneymaking operation, and the powers that be will want him back. Normal rules do not apply.

The gambling thing could be a problem, I wouldn't be surprised to see this issue fade.

I think the minute he takes a plea the NFL is put in that nightmare scenario of what to do with him. They then have the option to give him the boot but will they? Because as a QB he focuses more on his physical ability (agility, speed and so on) rather than his throwing i think it makes it more difficult for him as his health is more important an issue.

I found this to be a pretty interesting take on the matter. I'm not sure if you need a subscription/account to view Morrisey in the Trib, so here are a few excerpts if you can't view it:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...hi_sports_util

I don't really have a whole lot to say on the article itself, I just found it interesting to read, in the wake of all this media hype surrounding this particular case. And it is certainly true that athletes accused of and convicted of actual crimes against people have gotten far less revulsion and outrage directed at them.

I wonder why that is...

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"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases."

-Thomas Jefferson

Ray Carruth - but that could have just been in NC. I could also say OJ, but that would be former NFL, of course.
...
He said a mouthful. I agree, and I'm afraid (IMO) its just acceptable - all over sports, from football to baseball, etc.

Beat your wife, get charged, bad PR, "I'm sorry", take anger management, and we're done. Of course thats a simplified version, but perhaps its easier to forgive someone for "losing their temper"? I think Goodell has an opportunity here to turn things around - He's handled things in the off season rather well - Jones is suspended (but off making records) - I'm not too sure about Johnson, was that all the Bears?





As far as Vick...I've been watching ESPN most of the morning while doing things around the house. They have been playing audio of people defending Vick - here's whats grating on my nerves..
Now that he is pleading guilty, there is no more wait and see defense, now those people are arguing the merits of dogfighting (I believe I heard Stephon Marbury say that dogfighting was just a sport...with dogs..)

Someone else was yelling that he has kids and a Mom. This is where the argument is getting lost on me. Grasping at straws now.. "But, But, But!!!"

No "buts" - he broke the rules - dog fighting, racketeering, etc. He broke the rules, he lied and he got caught. Just because people can't argue the wait and see line anymore, doesn't mean they should keep excusing him. Something tells me people excusing him helped him to where he is now, as it does others who do the same thing.
What he did shouldn't be excused, neither should domestic battery, neither should murder, and the list goes on. I can't feel sorry for him, nor do I feel he is getting steamrolled. The man had a 100 million dollar contract, along with endorsements - he knew the rules and he didn't care.
Piss on it - there are other people out there with loads of talent, who would kill to be where he is, and hopefully not shit on it because they think they can. He let his team down, he let his fans down. I'll feel sorry for them, but the only reason Vick is where he is, is because he put himself there.


*I am not directing this argument at you, I'm just talking.

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MESMERISM, n. Hypnotism before it wore good clothes, kept a carriage and asked Incredulity to dinner. - Ambrose Bierce

I think Vick, partially got the shaft. Vick is a victim of his own upbringing “to an extent”..I have been to bull fights…my only objection is, even if the bull does well (take a chunk out of the matadors ass etc.), they scramble his brains anyway….they should let him live…Anyway, Vick came from a semi rural upbringing, sports like this have been extent in his neck of the woods for centuries…..so, it’s a learned accommodation…IF he did torture these animals that were eventually put to death for fighting poorly etc. that shows a meanness of character that doesn’t take dog fighting to bring out or put on display. And for that he should get time.

As fr the charge of fighting dogs? No, I don’t think so. No more than a guy first offender cock fighting should go to jail either…

I suspect we will never know, but can take his plea as perhaps a non coenfession….I suspect, he took the plea because his lawyer might have told him:" hey you’ll skate jail time on just dog fighting, BUT if anyone testifies with sppt. , they saw you mistreating the dogs outside of just throwing them in the ring, you’re toast", and there ya go.

BUT, lets be honest here, he was treated as if he was guilty as soon as the news hit the airwaves, and folks, his being guilty to what he did cop in the plea, is not an excuse. I was super pissed when those guys from Duke got the shaft from the media, their professors etc. and I am pissed here…his plea to some type of culpability means squat regards his being suspended from football and hung out to dry before a trail, or the eventual settlement of the case which is a plea bargain.

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No individual can plan his own existence in their view.

So the state planners must arrogate to themselves the right to manipulate any sector of the economic system if the good of “society” or the “general welfare” is paramount.

Ipso- if the rights of the individual get in the way, the rights of the individual must be sublimated.

The Road to Serfdom
FA Hayek (interpretation)


Mortgage Backed Security survivor

So Vick is a victim because of his own upbringing? Because he came from a semi-rural place, he therefore did not know that maybe this dog fighting ring was a bad idea? That's like me saying, "Well Judge, the reason why I shot those people is because of my upbringing. I grew up playing violent X-box games all my life, so this has always been in my neck of the woods. It's a learned accommodation, Judge, the A button on the controller."

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Diversity: The exclusion of White people.

Equality: The act of putting minorities first.

Bigot/Racist: A person winning an argument against a Liberal

Tolerance: Respecting Muslims, while bashing Christians.