Translation: Strawman

Fallacy: Appeal to popularity. The popularity of an idea does not make it correct or beneficial.

Are not the vast majority of the illegals from this nation? Or do you have millions of illegals from Germany or France that I am not aware of?

So Meztiso's are not the majority of those flooding into America? There are also millions of illegal Ukrainians and Poles flooding into your nation in similar numbers?

Translation: No intelligent response from Steve.

The difference is I actually care about the future of my children which is why I reject your diversity. It is the social engineering of the diversity-monger that introduced HIV into our lands for example...

AIDS virus invaded U.S. from Haiti: study | Reuters

Thank you for that gift diversity-mongers...

Fallacy: Guilt by association! Just because you decide that Brett and I are alike does not mean that I endorse every one of his positions.

If you want to behave like a child so be it; you certainly cannot out-debate me so I suppose you have to compensate in some manner.

Fallacy: Strawman! I never said it was acceptable to beat anyone because of their race.

Before I respond, is it your position that the illegal immigration problem is a Mexican problem?

You've provided no evidence to suggest otherwise...

I've found that debating racists is remarkably easy, as they tend to be astonishingly simplistic in their views...

Okay.

My friend, who's black, was attacked, from behind, by a white guy swinging a beer bottle. The white guy got the shit kicked out of him. Where I come from, when someone attacks your friends, you defend them.

Brett suggested that I, too, should've attacked my friend, solely on the basis of the fact that he's black, to "even the playing field".

Would you condemn or support such an action on my part?

Do you condemn or support my decision to defend my friend?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

It is an American problem with most of the illegals coming from Mexico.

Fallacy: Shifting the burden of proof

You certainly are simplistic in your views and you have espoused racism ad nauseum on this forum

If you used excessive force in defending your friend; you should have been arrested but if you took lawful measures to defend someone from an assault I will not condemn you for it.

Of course I have no reason to believe this story but I would not condemn you for using lawful force to stop an assault regardless of the race of the people involved.

The child molestor gets a harsher sentence than a non-violent thief, duh.
What's the point of the question?

You do realize that a very large number of illegals entering across the US/Mexican border aren't Mexican, right?

"Ad nauseum"?

Hardly...

Well, the cops didn't seem to believe it was excessive force.

I, however, believe that excessive force is often the way to go. It ensures a quick ending...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I said 'most' of the illegal migrants come from Mexico; am I mistaken?

Possibly.

I'm not employed by the US Immigration Service or the Border Patrol, so I don't know that information. It wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't the case though, and more come through Mexico from places south...

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

The answer is simple: now that slavery [in the U.S.] is over, why are Blacks still in America in the first place? America's founders created a White republic. They didn't want a multicultural democracy:

Proof: Our Founders Wanted a White America

In fact, good ol' Abe Lincoln wanted to ship the Blacks out of America to other countries, but that plan failed, so he had to play the role of the "great emancipator" as a second choice:

The Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln and the Issue of Race

If the answer is so simple, why didn't you answer the question?

Which one gets which sentence?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

This "what if" game is so incredibly fun!

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You know very well what I mean. If you don't, that's your problem, not mine. America is a White country, according to the 1790 citizenship law. The Black criminal-in-question should be in Africa, not in America.

Shoulda', coulda', woulda'.

You're dodging.

Try to deal with actual reality, and answer the question.

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

I don't mean to get in between you guys as you seem to be having so much fun, but I wrote something the other day in another thread about the illegal immigration issue and it has yet to be responded to, so I figured I'd repost it here since it applies:

I find it very interesting when people vehemently deny any illegal immigrant's right to work in this country. In fact, many towns that have enacted laws punishing businesses for hiring illegal immigrants are now repealing them after watching their economies crumble. The fact is, America's economy depends on cheap, uneducated labor.

Fear of people who are different has always been prevalent in American society. We often forget about the "Know-Nothing" party, also called The Native American Party, which is ironic considering that all of its members were white. Anyhow, this party was formed basically in reaction to fears of the masses of Irish immigrants, who were on the whole illiterate, poor, and uneducated. The main points of their platform?

* Severe limits on immigration, especially from Catholic countries
* Restricting political office to native-born Americans
* Mandating a wait of 21 years before an immigrant could gain citizenship
* Restricting public school teachers to Protestants
* Mandating daily Bible readings in public schools (from the Protestant version of the Bible)
* Restricting the sale of liquor

Sound like a crazy party with no real support? The "Know-nothings" won leadership in Boston, Salem, and Philadelphia, and then went on to carry the entire State of Massachusetts in 1854. However, we forget about this, because eventually Irish people assimilated, and thanks to that good 'ol Catholic libido, damn near every white guy in America is part Irish (myself included).

And yet we repeat the same mistakes with Hispanic immigrants. We color them as thieves, suckling greedily at the giving teat of the benevolent Lady Liberty. The facts, however, paint a different picture. Imagine, if you will, that in the early 1900's, a Latin American man named Zapata fought for and won the right for that country's citizens to own private mejidos on which to live and farm. And this was added to this country's constitution and upheld all the way until 1994, when on the first of the year, this particular part of the constitution was repealed to allow US-owned agro-business to move in and buy mass amounts of land. And the citizens, now without land they once called their own, were allowed to work the land, but at borderline unlivable wages and for a foreign master. That's Mexican history.

Yet today, we have a name for those who decide to take the chance of being killed by unsupervised, bloodthirsty border patrol agents to take on a life of secrecy and hard labor if only to improve the lives of their future children. We call them criminals and do our best to cast them out to the country they escaped. Could there be something more un-American?

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"Old Man Antonio smiles 'You've learned now that in order to know and walk you have to ask questions.' He coughs and lights another cigarette and out of his mouth come these words that fall like seeds on the ground."

Are you honestly wondering why nobody responded to that?

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Obama's New "57 State Patriotic Pin":




Sayeth John Drake - 10/13/08: "OK, you're right, I admit to LYING"

Well, I suppose it shouldn't be surprising given that most Americans ignore these things in the first place. Just trying to bring a little history into the discussion of illegal immigration to give an idea as to why people are streaming across the border in the first place. I was also trying to show that people have always been afraid of immigrants, but eventually, they assimilate into the culture and become positive cogs in the American machine just as every other ethnicity. But I guess that was a bit outlandish.

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"Old Man Antonio smiles 'You've learned now that in order to know and walk you have to ask questions.' He coughs and lights another cigarette and out of his mouth come these words that fall like seeds on the ground."