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View Poll Results: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?
Castration plus mandatory 25 year sentence and then death for a second offense. 1 3.70%
Castration plus mandatory 25 year sentence and then life for a second offense. 2 7.41%
Just a mandatory 25 year sentence for the first offense and death the second offense. 2 7.41%
Just a mandatory 25 year sentence for the first offense and life in prison the second offense. 4 14.81%
Castration plus the death penalty 1 3.70%
Castration plus life in prison 1 3.70%
Just the death penalty. 4 14.81%
Just life in prison 4 14.81%
These people are sick they should be cured while they are incarcerated and then released. 3 11.11%
No more than what state law allows even if it is little or not time behind bars 0 0%
other 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
Some states in the USA have enacted laws that make the death penalty as a option for the 2nd time molesting a child.
Too harsh for my taste - just cut the balls off and its a done deal. If the argument for death is natural law, then leave the molesters alone with a horny donkey.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42 Regular View Post
A man under the influence of drugs or alcohol and not knowing the actual age of a young lady who engages in sex voluntarily would also have a viable defence.
That his fault for being under the influence of drugs it does not change the fact he still committed a crime.Being under the influence of drugs and or alcohol does not alleviate anyone from responsibility of their actions.


Quote:
The true Child Molestor is very often a victim of molestation, their mental development warped by the experiance, they are still a danger to society.
IS there any actual evidence to support that claim. Pedophiles claiming they were molested when they were younger to quacks is not proof.People say anything to get leniency in a court,they offer the "I'm only apologizing to get leniency" apology,feigning remorse, and the "I am victim too" nonsense.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
Too harsh for my taste - just cut the balls off and its a done deal. If the argument for death is natural law, then leave the molesters alone with a horny donkey.
I believe the death penalty is the punishment for the most heinous of from crimes such as premeditated murder,treason,terrorism,child molestation/rape,armed robbery, and kidnapping.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42 Regular View Post
A man under the influence of drugs or alcohol and not knowing the actual age of a young lady who engages in sex voluntarily would also have a viable defence.
Are you serious?

Being drunk does not absolve one of responsibility...
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

There's no doubt that Child molestation or Rape is something that criminals cannot rehabilitate from.

Watching Dateline NBC has pretty much shown me that those guys are habitually catch and release and catch and release. They can't seem to help themselves, so the only remedy is to remove them from society.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBoyScout View Post
There's no doubt that Child molestation or Rape is something that criminals cannot rehabilitate from..
I could care less if they can be rehabilitated or not.These people committed a despicable crime.

Quote:
Watching Dateline NBC has pretty much shown me that those guys are habitually catch and release and catch and release.
Other than Heroes and Chuck that is one of the few shows on NBC I like watching.

Quote:
They can't seem to help themselves,
so the only remedy is to remove them from society
I bet if those scumbags faced the death penalty for the first offense or at least physical castration and a 25 year prison sentence they would probably be able to help themselves.The sad fact is for many years these people were not treated like the cockroaches in human form that they are,look at Vermont for example child molester sympathizer capital of the world.So it will be a while before these people get it in their heads that child molestation/rape will not be taken lightly.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 02-08-2008
42 Regular 42 Regular is offline
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42 Regular
A man under the influence of drugs or alcohol and not knowing the actual age of a young lady who engages in sex voluntarily would also have a viable defence.

That his fault for being under the influence of drugs it does not change the fact he still committed a crime.Being under the influence of drugs and or alcohol does not alleviate anyone from responsibility of their actions.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse but ignorance of the facts which make a particular act a crime is a viable defense.
Example. A Tresspasser who sees a no tresspassing sign and does so any way is guilty. A Person caught on anothers land, and the no tresspassing sign is not posted in a manner to be visible to anyone who might accidently enter that property is not necessarily guilty.
Its not that uncommon for a 16 year old girl to appear to be much older.
An example of this is the Actress who played "Wrangler Jane" on the TV series "F Troop". If you are familar with that series Wrangler Jane had the appearance of a woman in her mid twenties, but in reality the actress Melody Patterson was a minor, she had lied about her age to get the job. Actor Larry Storch got into a bit of trouble when it was found he was having an affair with her.
Melody Patterson was as tall as most of the men on the show, obviously physically mature, and had the personality and confidence of an adult.
Just being drunk, and knowingly having sex with a girl you know to be under age, is no excuse. But being under the influence and thus your judgement impaired to the point that you don't make sure of the young ladies age could be a viable defense.

Quote:
Mistake of Fact

Although statutory rape was historically a strict-liability crime, California now recognizes a defense where the perpetrator participates in a mutual act of sexual intercourse, believing his partner to be beyond the age of consent, with reasonable grounds for such belief. People v. Hernandez, 39 Cal. Rptr. 361, 364 (1964). This acceptance coincided with the raising of the age of consent. Accordingly, the crime of committing lewd or lascivious acts with a child under the age of 14, Cal. Pen. Code 288(a), remains a strict-liability offense.
Quote:
People v Hernandez
S. Ct. of CA In Bank (1964)
Author:- Sam Biers

Facts: Defendant was charged with Statutory Rape. Defendant and the victim were not married, and had been companions for several months prior to January 3, 1961 - the date of the commission of the alleged offense. On that date she was 17 years 9 months old and voluntarily entered into sexual intercourse with the defendant.

Issue: Whether the defendant possessed the necessary intent and knowledge at the time of the commission of the crime?

Holding: No

Procedure: Convicted by a bench trial for misdemeanor. Reversed.

Rule: Act of sexual intercourse, accomplished with a female, not the wife of the perpetrator, where the female is under the age of 18.

There must be a union, or joint operation of act and intent, or criminal negligence.

One is not capable of committing a crime who commits an act under ignorance or mistake of fact which disproves any criminal intent.

Ct. Rationale: Lack of consent is a required element of the crime as the legislature mandated. By the statutory language “there must be a union, or joint operation of act and intent,” the elements of conduct and mental state that must be infused. The defendant participated in a mutual act of sexual intercourse, believing his partner to be beyond the age of consent. The defendant entertained a reasonable belief that his partner, whom he resided with, was beyond the age of consent.

PL A: The victim cannot consent because she is below the legal age of capacity to consent. Therefor the defendant assumes the criminal responsibility when he voluntarily dismisses the duty to reasonably investigate.

Def A: The necessary culpability never formed as a necessary element. Both parties entered into the act, free of intent or knowledge to commit a crime, believing each was beyond the legal age.
Perhaps I should have been more clear that I was speaking of Statutory Rape.

Last edited by 42 Regular; 02-08-2008 at 09:17 PM.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

CNN.com - Guilty of sex with student, teacher avoids prison - Nov 23, 2005

Remember this? This is disgusting. The 14 year old boy bangs his hot teacher 3 times in four days and she's guilty of being a child rapist. The kid probably bragged to his buddies endlessly about it. There is NO crime here.

Quote:
CNN) -- In a last-minute effort to keep herself out of prison, a 25-year-old middle school teacher pleaded guilty Tuesday to having sex with a 14-year-old.

Debra Lafave, a former remedial reading teacher at Greco Middle School in Temple Terrace, Florida, pleaded guilty to two counts of lewd and lascivious behavior, and was sentenced to three years of house arrest followed by seven years probation. She also must register as a sex offender.

She could have faced up to 15 years for each count filed in Hillsborough County. She also could have been charged in Marion County, because one of the incidents happened there.

"I want to apologize to the court, to the young man involved and to his family for my actions," Lafave said. "I accept full responsibility for my actions, and I am very sorry for everything which has occurred." (Watch as she makes her court appearance -- 1:03)

A 14-year-old boy told investigators he had sex with Lafave three times in four days in June 2004, according to court documents. One of those times was in a car while his 15-year-old cousin drove them around, he told authorities.

He also said she performed oral sex on him multiple times, including once at her home, the documents said.

Defense attorney John Fitzgibbons said he began negotiating the plea deal Monday after he deposed the boy's cousin.

"We believe that this was a very fair resolution of this case," Fitzgibbons said, adding that Lafave avoided prison time with the plea and will be allowed to continue her mental health treatment.

"Very importantly, it allows the young man involved here to go on with his life, just as Debbie can go on with her life," he said. "He does not have to participate in a trial or deposition."

Fitzgibbons had originally planned an insanity defense, saying earlier this year that Lafave had "some profound emotional issues" and that "once anyone reads what the doctors have to say, they will understand a lot more."

Asked how she felt after the plea deal was announced, Lafave said only, "Tired."

It was a change of heart by the boy's parents that made the plea deal possible. At first, they had insisted that Lafave serve at least three years in prison, but they recently relented, allowing prosecutors to strike the deal before the trial began.

"Because of the media coverage of these cases, I fear that proceeding to trial will negatively affect my son's emotional and psychological well-being," the boy's mother said in an affidavit filed in Hillsborough County on Tuesday.

She added that her son did not want to testify and merely "wants to resume his life in as normal a manner as possible."
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Sullivan Bere View Post
Well, in CA, it's apparently customary for online predators to get 'no contest' pleas. IMO, that's utterly disgraceful.

I was watching MSNBC's 'To Catch A Predator' and of the piles of guys getting caught, almost all of them got offered and accepted 'no contest' pleas to a charge of an attempted lewd act on a minor.

Given the damning video evidence of being busted at the scene, online chat evidence, defendants' oral admissions on the show, an entire globe of witnesses to the same, and there being no actual minor involved, there is absolutely no reason 'no contest' pleas should ever be offered to such perverts.
Perhaps the prosecutors aren't so confident that their entrapment will hold up in an actual court if seriously challenged?

There is here a huge gulf between the realities of law enforcement and the 'tar & feather' impulses of the citizenry.

In Canada, we have the silly spectacle of the 'tar & feather' crowd demanding absurd laws be passed (re: child porn) that just get struck down by the courts at the first opportunity, leaving no child porn law standing until a new one is enacted (and struck down again). No attempt is made to pass a law that is actually enforceable and will stand up to legal scrutiny. All that matters is the political pandering to the 'tar & feather' brigade that just doesn't know or care about the issue enough to become informed about it.

I see no difference with the online-entrapment game.

And given US DNA exoneration rates, I'd be a little hesitent about pouring tar & feathers on anyone 'found guilty' in the US court system these days.

*I didn't vote in the poll as the issue is too complex for such simplistic and across-the-board type replies. As always, my reply to the poll question is not available in the poll choices given.

Last edited by White Rabbit; 02-13-2008 at 11:41 AM.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

In my opinion, this really is one of the most complicated issues that the judicial system faces. Everytime someone projects a blanketed statement regarding their choice of punishment, someone responds with a justifiable scenario that forces deeper thought.

What if the victim appears "of age" and willingly consents?

What if the convicted individual later turns out to be innocent?

If we begin establishing mandatory punishments for crimes like this, we end up ignoring all the gray area.

That having been said, first-time admitted or videotaped child rapists deserve a life sentence.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
CNN.com - Guilty of sex with student, teacher avoids prison - Nov 23, 2005

Remember this? This is disgusting. The 14 year old boy bangs his hot teacher 3 times in four days and she's guilty of being a child rapist. The kid probably bragged to his buddies endlessly about it. There is NO crime here.
What if it was a 14-year-old girl having sex with her teacher?

What if the boy was having sex with a male teacher?

Still OK with all that?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

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Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
What if it was a 14-year-old girl having sex with her teacher?

What if the boy was having sex with a male teacher?

Still OK with all that?
There is definitely a double-standard here. However, in some situations, I'm OK with a double-standard. When I was 14, I would have done just about anything to sleep with one of my teachers.

If the boy would have been upset about it, I think he would have every right to press charges and the female teacher should have been punished the same way a male teacher would have been punished. In the Debra LaFave situation, I heard the boy walked around with a shirt that read, "Why don't you ask my teacher why I got an A." He certainly didn't seem traumatized by that situation and I can't blame him. But different situations definitely require different solutions.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

But why the double standard?

Do you honestly believe that a 14 year-old boy is more capable of dealing with issues around sex than a 14 year-old girl.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

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But why the double standard?

Do you honestly believe that a 14 year-old boy is more capable of dealing with issues around sex than a 14 year-old girl.
I really don't know. Biological evidence would probably suggest that young girls are actually more capable of dealing with these issues (because they are known to mature earlier), but real-life experience tells me that this is not true.

When making the law, it is important to disregard double-standards whenever we can. That being the case, I agree with you that it is important that males and females are prosecuted the same way with regard to sexual activity with minors.

I'm only 4 1/2 years out of high school. It probably would not be fair for me to suggest that I would have been able to emotionally handle a sexual encounter with a teacher because I never encountered a situation like that. But I do remember how much I would have wanted to back then. And I definitely wasn't alone.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2008
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Re: What should we do to convicted child molesters/rapist?

Yeah, but kids want a lot of things that could be disastrous for them. It's part of being a kid. Just because a 14-year-old boy thinks that he wants sex with a much-older adult doesn't mean that he's capable of dealing with it.
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