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Popular Crime Stories and Trials A forum to discuss high profile crime stories and trials, media circus trials, etc

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  #601 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2008
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Si modo Si modo is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Maybe, like i said there are exceptions for things like harm to the other mother's life and stuff but just looking at some of the scenario's that Wallaroo has put up...well killing an innocent person to save your own child's life is pretty gut wrenching. It puts a true value and importance on the issue of life.

That's why for me if it was a situation where i had to shoot to save someone even though an intuder was threatenning someone else and not me i would most probably try and stop him rather than wait for the cops. So long as the law allowed me to of course.
The topic is not about protecting your loved ones with lethal force, rather those inanimate objects of neighbors or even strangers, with lethal force.
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Last edited by partofme; 03-09-2008 at 05:50 PM.
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  #602 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post


Yes, clearly you're the fit parent who would shoot a child for stealing your valve stem covers.

Get fucking real.
I specifically said i WOULDN'T.
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Last edited by partofme; 03-10-2008 at 10:35 AM.
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  #603 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
I specifically said i WOULDN'T.
Actually, you didn't:

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
What he is choosing to steal is not the issue. The issue is, the law allows the use of deadly force to stop a criminal in progress and recover your property. If I decide that the only way to recover that property is to stop him with deadly force, so be it. Would I? Over valve caps? probably not.
"Probably not." That surely leaves open the possibilty that you would.
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  #604 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Actually, you didn't:



"Probably not." That surely leaves open the possibilty that you would.
believe what you want pram. I'm done with you.
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  #605 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

You're the one who wrote it, not me.
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  #606 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
Jimbo Jimbo is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
....I still think that it's wrong to shoot someone who isn't a threat to YOUR person or property (as in breaking into YOUR home) or someone else's PERSON.
Damn liberal.
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  #607 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
Damn liberal.
LOL Nah, just don't like the idea of killing over a television or stereo. I promise that I'd kill ANYONE that presented a threat of bodily harm to me or mine though!
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  #608 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
I understand that TX law allows this but I can't agree that it's the right law. Yeah, they were illegal and we all know how I feel about that issue but I still think that it's wrong to shoot someone who isn't a threat to YOUR person or property (as in breaking into YOUR home) or someone else's PERSON.
I feel the exact same way! That said, it seems theres more reason to copy the TX property defense laws in Denmark than elsewhere.
Quote:
Burglaries per capita:

#1 Australia: 21.7454 per 1,000 people
#2 Dominica: 18.7892 per 1,000 people
#3 Denmark: 18.3299 per 1,000 people
#4 Estonia: 17.4576 per 1,000 people
#5 Finland: 16.7697 per 1,000 people
#6 New Zealand: 16.2763 per 1,000 people
#7 United Kingdom: 13.8321 per 1,000 people
#8 Poland: 9.46071 per 1,000 people
#9 Canada: 8.94425 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa: 8.89764 per 1,000 people
#11 Montserrat: 8.24323 per 1,000 people
#12 Iceland: 8.11156 per 1,000 people
#13 Switzerland: 8.06303 per 1,000 people
#14 Slovenia: 7.93734 per 1,000 people
#15 Czech Republic: 7.24841 per 1,000 people
#16 Hungary: 7.15849 per 1,000 people
#17 United States: 7.09996 per 1,000 people
Quote:
Car thefts per capita:

#1 Australia: 6.92354 per 1,000 people
#2 Denmark: 5.92839 per 1,000 people
#3 United Kingdom: 5.6054 per 1,000 people
#4 New Zealand: 5.45031 per 1,000 people
#5 Norway: 5.08143 per 1,000 people
#6 France: 4.9713 per 1,000 people
#7 Canada: 4.88547 per 1,000 people
#8 Italy: 4.19755 per 1,000 people
#9 United States: 3.8795 per 1,000 people
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  #609 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
The law doesn't invoke the death penalty for robbery. Mr. Horn had no right to do so, either.

Matt
So he arrested them (citizen's arrest) and then executed them? Not according to the article. If you could only use force against someone that is equivalent to or less than that which is allowed by law as punishment for their actions, then self-defense would pretty much be impossible because the death penalty (as far as I'm aware) is only used for murder. Thus, you would not be able to defend yourself until after you are murdered (making it impossible).

This isn't a case of the Texan "punishing" the criminals. It is a case of his using force to stop them. For example, the North Hollywood shootout only resulted in the deaths of the perpetrators. Does that mean nobody was justified in using force to stop them (since, as you say, their acts technically did not invoke the death penalty)?
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  #610 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. M View Post
LOL Nah, just don't like the idea of killing over a television or stereo. I promise that I'd kill ANYONE that presented a threat of bodily harm to me or mine though!
You're not killing them over the TV or stereo - you're recovering your property. If the robber ends up dead in the process, too fucking bad.
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  #611 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
AdrienXII AdrienXII is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
You're not killing them over the TV or stereo - you're recovering your property. If the robber ends up dead in the process, too fucking bad.
Imagine you fail to make the payments for your car. Should the repo man be allowed to kill you, if you prevent him from doing his job?
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  #612 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
Traveler Traveler is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Huh? You're saying that by killing him we're preventing the thief from doing his job?
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  #613 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
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pramjockey pramjockey is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
You're not killing them over the TV or stereo - you're recovering your property.


Are you really not seeing how self-conflicting that statement is?
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  #614 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
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Eagle88 Eagle88 is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

If the man's original intention was to simply hold the thieves at gunpoint until police arrived and then he actually did come almost face to face with them and was forced to shoot when they lunged at him then I think he is justified. If he had an original intention of killing them regardless then he probably wasn't justified. I think it is the intention that this man had that makes the difference in this case.
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  #615 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2008
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrienXII View Post
Imagine you fail to make the payments for your car. Should the repo man be allowed to kill you, if you prevent him from doing his job?
Completely different situation, and covered under a completely different set of laws.

On the other hand, if i were "appropriating" a replacement vehicle from someone and they decided i didnt get to take that car home that day, I would expect to be shot over it, yes.
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