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  #706 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008
Traveler Traveler is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
He only gave them about a second to freeze, which is not fair.
Okay so how much time would you determine to be fair? You know, fair to people who are trespassing and breaking into someone else's home, in the country illegally, dealing drugs?

Seriously, as harsh as it may sound, if they had no warning there would have been no problem, they were in the wrong, not him, and he had no obligation to do even as much as he did.

Quote:
Theres also the chance of people taking advantage of that law if they wanna kill somebody.
If they do, more than likely they will get caught out.

If they falsely claim they mistook someone or something like that with enough investigation from law enforcement etc, they will get caught out.
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  #707 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

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Originally Posted by Slon View Post
Having to go to your neighbor's houses to explain to them that you will climb in through your own window is absurd. IMO if this guy shot and killed someone who actually was climbing into his OWN house, then it should be considered murder.
Hell must be pretty cold right now.

I absolutely agree with you...
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  #708 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Yes and generally the way to steal someone's stuff is to break into their home, if you try stop them they may well try kill you.
They were running away, no one was in danger at that point. He could have just let them run.

Quote:
They're not being given the right to act as judge jury and executioner, we all are being given the ability to defend ourselves or someone else, our property or someone else's if we think it neccessary, that's all.
No, you are in fact being given the right to act as as judge, jury and executioner. Note the bolded part - if you think it's necessary. You're acting as the judge, and you're making the decision that their punishment shall be death.

If someone is breaking in to your house, ok, I have no problem shooting them, especially if you feel your life is threatened & you gave them warning. Actually, scratch that - even if you don't particularly feel threatened, they're trying to break into you home, they deserve to be shot, imo.

However, shooting someone in the back, after the fact, while they're running away... how is your life threatened at that point? It's not. That leaves the property that they're running away with. Is it worth taking someone's life over stolen property? At that point, it's just anger and revenge.
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  #709 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2008
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe View Post
They were running away, no one was in danger at that point. He could have just let them run.



No, you are in fact being given the right to act as as judge, jury and executioner. Note the bolded part - if you think it's necessary. You're acting as the judge, and you're making the decision that their punishment shall be death.
Not really. You are simply doing your best to stop them from getting away with stolen property. If they dropped all of the property and ran away immediately, then it would be a different matter, and the guy would not be allowed to shoot them. A judge acts like this: punishes them after the crime is committed, regardless of whether or not said punishment stops the crime in question. Others act like this: do all in their power to stop criminals, but cannot punish them once the crime is not longer being committed.

Using your logic, the North Hollywood bank robber, Matasareanu, should not have been shot and killed because he never committed a crime that would allow for execution. Thus, that the cops who shot and killed him should be in jail.
Quote:
If someone is breaking in to your house, ok, I have no problem shooting them, especially if you feel your life is threatened & you gave them warning. Actually, scratch that - even if you don't particularly feel threatened, they're trying to break into you home, they deserve to be shot, imo.

However, shooting someone in the back, after the fact, while they're running away... how is your life threatened at that point? It's not. That leaves the property that they're running away with. Is it worth taking someone's life over stolen property? At that point, it's just anger and revenge.
It's really not about worth, since worth is subjective. If two low-lives broke into my home and tried to steal my $230 old TV set, that TV set would still be worth more to me than the lives of those assholes. Should people be allowed to shoot others in self-defense? Yes. In defense of property? I don't know. In an attempt to stop someone from drinking a beer when they are only 20? Definitely not.
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  #710 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008
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John Drake John Drake is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

He's not off the hook yet. The families could still bring a wrongful death suit and the very fact that an indictment was considered this long means they have a case. The fact that he shot them in the back after the 911 operator specifically told him not to does not look at all good in this regard.

Then again, this is Texas, where 'he needed killing' is actually a legitimate defense.
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  #711 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008
Traveler Traveler is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Doubtful that they'll file...
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  #712 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2008
Slon Slon is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
He's not off the hook yet. The families could still bring a wrongful death suit and the very fact that an indictment was considered this long means they have a case. The fact that he shot them in the back after the 911 operator specifically told him not to does not look at all good in this regard.

Then again, this is Texas, where 'he needed killing' is actually a legitimate defense.
A 911 operator does not set laws.
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A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image.

Someone should tell them that bad press can be prevented by not abusing prisoners in the first place. Censorship is only needed to preserve the good reputation of those who have tortured and/or murdered already.
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  #713 (permalink)  
Old 07-03-2008
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Okay so how much time would you determine to be fair? You know, fair to people who are trespassing and breaking into someone else's home, in the country illegally, dealing drugs?
I dont have any more sympathy for them than you do, but they still have their basic human rights.
Quote:
Seriously, as harsh as it may sound, if they had no warning there would have been no problem, they were in the wrong, not him, and he had no obligation to do even as much as he did.
I dont think he did it to protect his neighbours property, but because he wanted to kill a couple of scumfucks and become a local hero.
Quote:
If they do, more than likely they will get caught out.

If they falsely claim they mistook someone or something like that with enough investigation from law enforcement etc, they will get caught out.
Depends on weather there are relations between the shooter and the killed. You could indeed invite EricOKC over to your house for a cold one, and blow his head off without getting accused of anything.

You would of course kill somebody any day of the week in order to protect me!
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  #714 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
He's not off the hook yet.
Yes he is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
The families could still bring a wrongful death suit
No they can't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
and the very fact that an indictment was considered this long means they have a case.
No it doesnt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
The fact that he shot them in the back after the 911 operator specifically told him not to does not look at all good in this regard.
Irrelevant. The 911 operator's instructions carry no legal weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Drake View Post
Then again, this is Texas, where 'he needed killing' is actually a legitimate defense.
No it isn't, and never has been.

You are misinformed.
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  #715 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Why can't the family bring a wrongful death suit?
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  #716 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
Why can't the family bring a wrongful death suit?
Among other reasons, because the death was not wrongful.

Horn is not responsible for the poor choices of the dead scum. While it is true anyone can sue for anything, a case would go absolutely nowhere. There isn't a jury in the state which would award anything to the families of those pieces of human shit.
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  #717 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Among other reasons, because the death was not wrongful.

Horn is not responsible for the poor choices of the dead scum. While it is true anyone can sue for anything, a case would go absolutely nowhere. There isn't a jury in the state which would award anything to the families of those pieces of human shit.
So, basically, it's just your opinion.

It seemed that you actually had some fact to back you up.

My mistake.
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  #718 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricOKC View Post
Among other reasons, because the death was not wrongful.

Horn is not responsible for the poor choices of the dead scum. While it is true anyone can sue for anything, a case would go absolutely nowhere. There isn't a jury in the state which would award anything to the families of those pieces of human shit.
And yet in other states, burglars can sue the houseowner if they trip over something and hurt themselves. Fucking ridiculous!
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  #719 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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EricOKC EricOKC is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramjockey View Post
So, basically, it's just your opinion.

It seemed that you actually had some fact to back you up.

My mistake.
Educated opinion.

Wrongful death suits in Texas over issues like this are complete non-starters. I seem to remember there being some statute or another which prevents criminals (or their estate) from filing for damages they incur while engaged in illegal activity.
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  #720 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008
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Wallaroo Wallaroo is offline
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Re: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours'

I dont think Horn did it to protect his neighbours property, but because he wanted to kill a couple of scumfucks and become a local hero.
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