Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars at neighbours' - U.S. Politics Online: A Political Discussion Forum

gato_callejero · #1 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

I'm surprised this hasn't shown up here earlier:

Quote:

Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

A Texas man has become a hero after he took it upon himself to shoot and kill two burglars who had broken into his neighbour's house.

Joe Horn called the police to report the burglary and then stepped outside and shot the burglars dead as they left the neighbour's house.

A recording of the call suggests Mr Horn, 61, was itching to kill the two burglars.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded.

"You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered.

"I'm going to kill them."

Admirers, including several of his neighbours, say Mr Horn is a hero for killing the burglars, protecting his neighbourhood and sending a message to would-be criminals. Critics call him a loose cannon. His attorney says Mr Horn just feared for his life.

Prosecuting Mr Horn could prove difficult in Texas, where few people sympathise with criminals and many have an almost religious belief in the right to self-defence.

The case could test the state's self-defence laws, which allow people to use deadly force in certain situations to protect themselves, their property and their neighbours' property.

Horn was home in Pasadena, about 15 miles southeast of Houston, on Nov 14 when he heard glass breaking, said his attorney, Tom Lambright.

He looked out the window and saw 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and 30-year-old Diego Ortiz using a crowbar to break out the rest of the glass.

He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun and called 911, the police emergency number, Lambright said. "Uh, I've got a shotgun," he told the dispatcher.

"Uh, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher responded.

"Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn and the dispatcher spoke for several minutes, during which Mr Horn pleaded with the dispatcher to send someone to catch the men and vowed not to let them escape.

Over and over, the dispatcher told him to stay inside.

Horn repeatedly said he couldn't.

When the men crawled back out the window carrying a bag, Mr Horn began to sound increasingly frantic.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Mr Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber.

"You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Mr Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done. "I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Mr Lambright said Mr Horn had intended to take a look around when he left his house and instead came face to face with the burglars, standing 10 to 12 feet from him in his yard.

Mr Horn is heavyset and middle-aged and would have been no match in a physical confrontation with the two men, who were young and strong, Lambright said.

So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Mr Horn fired in self-defence, he said.

Family members of the two shooting victims have made few public statements.

Diamond Morgan, Ortiz's widow, who has an 8-month-old son with him, told Houston television station KTRK that she was stunned by Horn's statements on the 911 tape.

"It's horrible," she said. "He was so eager, so eager to shoot."

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed.

In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbours' property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbour to watch over his property while he's out of town.

At issue is whether it was reasonable for Mr Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

Source: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars.

Just add that, related to the second to last paragraph, I heard Mr. Horn saying in the news that he didn't even know his neighbours.

Any comments? I suggest this guy should be in jail. Judge Dredd is just a comic and, as far as I can remember, he didn't decide what punishment to apply, the law dictated that.

MattLarson · #2 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Completely and totally unjustified IMHO.

Personally, I just don't believe that using deadly force to protect material goods is ever justified, though.

People, yes when necessary. Property, no.

Matt

gato_callejero · #3 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Yes, that's my opinion too. The 911 operator said it all: "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

What puzzles me is the first sentence of the article:

Quote:

A Texas man has become a hero after he took it upon himself to shoot and kill two burglars who had broken into his neighbour's house.

It'd be nice if some who thinks this guy's a hero could explain his point of view.

SomeMarine · #4 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by gato_callejero

I'm surprised this hasn't shown up here earlier:

Source: Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars.

Just add that, related to the second to last paragraph, I heard Mr. Horn saying in the news that he didn't even know his neighbours.

Any comments? I suggest this guy should be in jail. Judge Dredd is just a comic and, as far as I can remember, he didn't decide what punishment to apply, the law dictated that.

You are forgetting to add they were in the country illegaly, and he said " If you move, you are dead". Not, " move!... your dead"

He should not be in jail, he took the trash out. Is property worth defending? Hell yes it is. Property represents more than it's self, it represents all the hours you spent working to earn that property. Besides, those dudes had no right or reason to be in that house, it was not their house, and they knew it. They weren't confused, they weren't mistaken, They went to that house to rob it. Tthey were criminals, and nothing more. They were proven criminals, not suspected criminals.

MattLarson · #5 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

The law doesn't invoke the death penalty for robbery. Mr. Horn had no right to do so, either.

Matt

wooyarn · #6 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

A Texas man has become a hero after he took it upon himself to shoot and kill two burglars who had broken into his neighbour's house.

A recording of the call suggests Mr Horn, 61, was itching to kill the two burglars.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded.

"You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered.

"I'm going to kill them."

He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun and called 911, the police emergency number, Lambright said. "Uh, I've got a shotgun," he told the dispatcher.

"Uh, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher responded.

"Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn and the dispatcher spoke for several minutes, during which Mr Horn pleaded with the dispatcher to send someone to catch the men and vowed not to let them escape.

Over and over, the dispatcher told him to stay inside.

Horn repeatedly said he couldn't.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Mr Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber.

"You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Sounds to me like he was intent to killing them reguardless.

SomeMarine · #7 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattLarson

The law doesn't invoke the death penalty for robbery. Mr. Horn had no right to do so, either.

Matt

We gotta disagree here. Robbing my house carries some stiff penalties.

Traveler · #8 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Heh...what do you mean "shown up earlier" Gato? On this site sure its been quiet but its been huge all over TX, this guy isn't a hero but it sure has provoked some huge rallies in favor and against him.

MattLarson · #9 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeMarine

We gotta disagree here. Robbing my house carries some stiff penalties.

If I'm in it, so might robbing mine.

But in the case in question, the residence was unoccupied. There was no risk to anyone's life.

Mr. Horn essentially appointed himself to be judge, jury and executioner. He announced his intention to kill the burglars to the dispatcher before he went out to confront them.

Matt

Donkey_Left · #10 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeMarine

You are forgetting to add they were in the country illegaly, and he said " If you move, you are dead". Not, " move!... your dead"

Link?

And I wasn't aware that having entered the country illegally somehow made it justified for you to be executed extra judicially.

Traveler · #11 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Yup they were here illegally Donkey which is why the DHS will block any attempt to allow Horny to be indicted.

I think one of them was from either Honduras or Guatamala and the other from the Dominican Republic though i could be mistaken.

Donkey_Left · #12 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

Yup they were here illegally Donkey which is why the DHS will block any attempt to allow Horny to be indicted.

I think one of them was from either Honduras or Guatamala and the other from the Dominican Republic though i could be mistaken.

They were both from Colombia. I looked it up.

Anyway, that issue is irrelevant. Murder is murder, regardless of the circumstances under which you entered the country.

Traveler · #13 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Sorry, i thought it was Carribean and central rather than South America.

Under our "castle law" i'm not entirely sure what he did was actually illegal...someone else may well be better qualified to comment on it.

Americano · #14 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Premeditated murder recorded by 911. Does it get any dumber?

Americano · #15 (**permalink**) 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

Sorry, i thought it was Carribean and central rather than South America.

Under our "castle law" i'm not entirely sure what he did was actually illegal...someone else may well be better qualified to comment on it.

Here's the law:

Texas Governor Rick Perry - Press Release - March 27, 2007

The Texas Castle Law applies to one's own home, vehicle or workplace. Deliberately killing people trying to break into an unoccupied neighboring home is murder. In this example with the 911 recording, premeditated.